Gifting non-vegan art to a vegan friend

[forinborin]

A ridiculous first world problem of today.

And the problem is that I commissioned a painting for one of my old dear friends as a Christmas present and just realised now that the artist uses quite a lot of animal-derived products in their work (ox gall as a primer, sable/squirrel brushes, things like that). Realised after watching some video tutorials of the said artist.

The friend is long-term vegetarian, turned vegan around a year ago. Quite strict about it (not in a proselytising way, but all close people know).

Would it be ethically ok to still give it to her? Or would it be below the "tolerance" level? Or do I ask her first if she is ok with it (it was intended as a surprise, so this will ruin it in a sense)? I feel so stupid now for not checking, but it is not something that occurred to me at all.

[EmergencyHydrangea]

@heldinadream

I'd just like to point out the impossibility of 100% veganism, for the following reason (among others).
Your TV, computer, phone and tablet use animal cholesterol in the liquid crystals in the screens.

All the vegans I know know this. They just do their best to do as little harm as possible

[NandorTheRelentless]

@JudyJudyJudyDench

It all depends on her outlook
I've been vegan for about 20 years but would rather accept and live this gift than it go to waste
But then I still by leather shoes (second hand) and would more than likely drink a tea made in error with milk rather than waste it to make another x
Waste is a huge issue for our world

Thats such a lovely outlook. And so sensible

[LemonSwan]

I don’t know any vegans who would have ate them. But I wouldn’t have wanted anyone to feel awkward and would have just ate the vegan food and made an extra fuss of how lovely it all is.

Im not vegan so cant comment on that, only the social dynamics which unfolded. But I will add they were absolutely incredible potatoes! I would have been quite pleased if the vegans did not want to eat them and I had a few extra

[PrivateHall]

OP you sound very kind and generous and I am sure your friend will very much appreciate the thought that went into this! I think it is great you have decided to be honest with her and let her decide. Good luck, please update us if you can!

[blameitonthecaffeine]

You commissioned a painting - that must have cost an absolute fortune! Way beyond the normal level of a present for a friend. If someone did that for me, there's no way I would turn it down. I'd feel like the worst, most ungrateful person in the world. Especially if it was so personal that nobody else could use it. I understand ethics and principles (I am not vegan but have other beliefs) but they are not as important as not hurting a friend.

The chances of you looking up how your gift was made were low. The chances of her doing the same are even lower. I doubt most non vegans would know there is such a thing as non vegan art. I honestly think you can give this to her in all good faith and innocence. If she does check, she's very unlikely to say anything to you and she won''t think that you already knew. She may get rid of it quietly but that's on her, not you.

You've done an incredibly kind thing for a friend. I think she'll be delighted with it.

[Mummyoflittledragon]

@HangingOutWithTheSandman

It's not something most non-vegans would ever even consider checking into.

Not my experience at all. When I first became a vegan I did lots of reading so that I could find out the types of things that contained animal products. My friends who are vegan did the same.

That’s exactly what the poster said. Non-vegans don’t research in the way vegans do as they don’t need to. You were vegan by this point. You said yourself.

[UltraVividLament]

@heldinadream

And most films/photos are digital these days rather than stored on gelatin based film.
So I'll say it again - your SCREEN has animal products in it. So digital does not cut it I'm afraid.

No, LCD screens don't contain animal cholesterol, that seems to be a widely spread myth, possibly based on a misunderstanding of what cholesteric liquid-crystal displays (ChLCDs) are.

[BridStar]

Who has the time and energy to give this stuff brain space? You can't do anything about the paint someone uses. She probably lives in a house of non-vegan brick with non-vegan carpets. If she's that strict about it she probably owns nothing at all.

[UltraVividLament]

@heldinadream and of course, you're missing the point of the "as far as is possible and practicable" comment.

[Mummyoflittledragon]

…And even if you don’t use screens, plant based agriculture still kills animals - ploughing, harvesting, loss of habitat etc.

[BridStar]

Honestly if veganism was just a choice then fine but some people seem to want a part time job instead

[ClaudiaJ1]

It's only a painting. Just a painting. No one would ever think there were actual animal products in a painting and she wouldn't think it either. So why would you need to tell her? Just give it to her.

[EmergencyHydrangea]

So many people not understanding how veganism works. (I'm not talking about the OP here)

[HangingOutWithTheSandman]

Im not vegan so cant comment on that, only the social dynamics which unfolded.

It’s not the vegan guests fault if others feel awkward in this situation. I would always try to make people feel comfortable if they added a non vegan product accidentally, say that it’s fine, not to worry and just carry on with the meal, but there’s no way I’d eat the food containing animal products.

Although some vegans will have different ‘lines’ on leather shoes, some don’t wear them, some will wear second hand, I’ve never known any vegan that will eat animal products. They don’t follow a vegan diet if they were willing to eat it, which is of course their choice.

On mumsnet, there’s always tales of vegans eating non vegan foods. No, they’re just not vegans to start with.

[HangingOutWithTheSandman]

No one would ever think there were actual animal products in a painting and she wouldn't think it either. So why would you need to tell her? Just give it to her.

Lots of vegans would know. I choose the items in my house very carefully. Why would OP lie to her friend?

[beautifullymad]

@Robostripes

If you take veganism to this level you wouldn’t be able to buy anything. Every single thing you buy will have been manufactured by people wearing leather shoes, who drove to the factory in vehicles with leather seats etc …

I’d give it to her and not say anything.

This, and yes, the vegans in my life are this way too. It makes shopping for anything a minefield.

What I don't understand is that synthetic fibre and plastic is just as bad. Bad for the environment. At this rate a true environmental vegan would wear only linen or cotton and wear wooden clogs, or am I missing something?

[WhoopsWhatsMyNameAgain]

As an ex- vegan, I'd say give it to her but don't mention the animal products. If she finds out and mentions it just say you didn't know.

The damage is done. The products have been used and you can't return so most ethical vegans would realise it would be more harmful to reject it now than waste it.

But better she doesn't know so she can fully enjoy it.

When I was vegan I avoided all animal derived food and drink, leather, suede etc. But I wouldn't have realised or cared about byproducts because there's a limit to what you can do. But maybe I was an exception.

[SnowyFeetByMoonlightBlue]

I think Hanging’s suggested reply works well then if it’s a question of the artist using less synthetics as opposed to making a point of animal products particularly.

If you’ve been friends for so long then a conversation will surely find a way through what seems to be an honest mistake.

*mistake isn’t the right word if you didn’t realise animal products would be in art in the first place but I can’t think of an alternative word!

[5128gap]

@BridStar

Who has the time and energy to give this stuff brain space? You can't do anything about the paint someone uses. She probably lives in a house of non-vegan brick with non-vegan carpets. If she's that strict about it she probably owns nothing at all.

Its about avoiding animal exploitation wherever possible. She can't do anything about the bricks her house is built from, and she may well have already had her carpets (few people would advocate replacing serviceable existing products) but a piece of art is not a necessity. That said, its done now, so she may feel avoiding waste offsets the other ethical issues.

[NippyNippy]

Could you find somewhere that can do a high quality scan of the piece or a professional photo and then have a print made. You can even get the print on a canvas. I know that's a lot of cost added and time of course but that way she can enjoy it and still not have the animal products in her house.

Obviously it won't be as good as the original but it won't compromise her beliefs.

[Bigboysmademedoit]

I gave a vegan relative money to buy some artwork for Christmas and went with them last week to choose what to buy. They bought an original from the artist and never asked about the sources of paint, brushes etc. Give it to her and don’t mention anything. If she’s bothered she can check herself.

[HollyandIvyandAllThingsYule]

@NippyNippy

Could you find somewhere that can do a high quality scan of the piece or a professional photo and then have a print made. You can even get the print on a canvas. I know that's a lot of cost added and time of course but that way she can enjoy it and still not have the animal products in her house.

Obviously it won't be as good as the original but it won't compromise her beliefs.

Actually that is a good idea if OP’s friend really can’t face keeping the original. A giclee print would reproduce the work in beautiful detail.

[JumparooSavedMyLife]

Well she isn't eating it and she'd never know, so I'd just give it her. If she's that bothered and looks into it I'm sure she'll tell you and you can have it back?

[Buttston2]

Hi as a long time vegetarian and almost vegan I'd say tell your friend. I'd accept it because I cannot veganise everything I try my best to buy things that don't contain animal products but I cannot control all things.
I don't wear leather and have synthetic shoes etc but I have no idea if the glues contain animal product and buying all vegan stuff is just expensive. So I say offer it to your friend explaining what is used hopefully she will be able to accept it good luck 👍

[ClaudiaJ1]

As an ex- vegan, I'd say give it to her but don't mention the animal products. If she finds out and mentions it just say you didn't know.

Exactly this. You are worrying probably for nothing OP.