Gifting non-vegan art to a vegan friend

[forinborin]

A ridiculous first world problem of today.

And the problem is that I commissioned a painting for one of my old dear friends as a Christmas present and just realised now that the artist uses quite a lot of animal-derived products in their work (ox gall as a primer, sable/squirrel brushes, things like that). Realised after watching some video tutorials of the said artist.

The friend is long-term vegetarian, turned vegan around a year ago. Quite strict about it (not in a proselytising way, but all close people know).

Would it be ethically ok to still give it to her? Or would it be below the "tolerance" level? Or do I ask her first if she is ok with it (it was intended as a surprise, so this will ruin it in a sense)? I feel so stupid now for not checking, but it is not something that occurred to me at all.

[TractorAndHeadphones]

@ClawedButler

And yes, as a PP pointed out - those saying "Don't tell her", would you give pork to a Muslim or Jew and not tell them? Because for many vegans, it is as profound and personal and powerful as that.

I’m a Hindu , I don’t eat beef as cows are sacred to us.
I wouldn’t care that this painting was made with ox whatever. I would care if someone served me a giant steak.

It’s not glaringly obvious

[Asdawindowandglass]

How annoying! I’d never think to give it to her either. If she will easily find out I think you have to tell her. How about going along with the surprise but writing it in the card and giving her the option for you to sell it instead and donate the proceeds to peta or another charity?

[ClawedButler]

Oh no, it's not glaringly obvious, you're quite right. That's kind of what I was getting at before, it depends on the person and WHY they're vegan. I think the OP is being really thoughtful.

[AryaStarkWolf]

I'd probably just give it to her and pretend I didn't know about the animal based paint etc (I literally wouldn't have known had I not read this thread)

[Stuckhere2021]

I must say I'm shocked at the number of people saying 'don't tell her'. You know about the animal products OP and it would be deceitful not to tell her. Just explain it honestly and see what she says.

[LetterBug]

How much did you spend? That would be the deciding factor for me

[stingofthebutterfly]

If I received a painting as a gift, it wouldn't ever occur to me to look at the artist's YouTube videos, so can't you just pretend you haven't seen them either?

[mam0918]

@HangingOutWithTheSandman

I have a vegan friend that runs a rescue farm and farms and eats her own produce just not 'farmed' produce where she doesn't know the animals are cared for.

I mean, I love that she runs a rescue farm. But as a pp said, her diet is not vegan.

That's the point though veganism is a whole complex lifestyle in which people pick different things from not a 'diet'.

Frankly, I think shes the most 'vegan' vegan I have met... she the one who actively spends her life to her own financial/personal ruin trying to change things for the animals, but as she said 'my chickens are going to lay the eggs regardless of if I eat them or not' and her eating an egg that her rescue 'pet' laid doesn't undo the entire life she dedicated herself too.

[HangingOutWithTheSandman]

mam0918

From the vegan society site,

one thing all vegans have in common is a plant-based diet avoiding all animal foods such as meat (including fish, shellfish and insects), dairy, eggs and honey

You really can’t be a vegan if you eat animal products. But I agree that she’s doing a lot of good in helping the animals and sounds lovely.

[TractorAndHeadphones]

@mam0918 well then she’s not vegan.
She might be an ethical meat consumer meaning she only consumes animal products she makes - but she’s not vegan.

And really terms don’t matter much as the level of accommodation.

Your friend only eats her own meat because animal welfare is important. Someone else might only eat meat from certain places to avoid chemicals etc. May be a slippery slope but at what point does it become ‘just’ a preference as opposed to something that must be ‘unquestionably’ honoured like religion?

On an individual level you know the person, but if a guest of someone else said they were vegan - and I went to great effort to make vegan food only to find out that they DID eat meat, just on their own terms I wouldn’t be very pleased.

[TractorAndHeadphones]

Also @mam0918 I agree it is complex.
Heck even religion is complex and people have different levels.
That’s why I’d rather go by intent. I don’t like extremists of any sort

[Tal45]

If it was me I'd apologise and say you didn't realise but the artist doesn't use synthetic brushes so it's not vegan. I would not mention ox gall or that's all she's going to think of every time she sees it.

[Chikapu]

That's the point though veganism is a whole complex lifestyle in which people pick different things from not a 'diet'.

Errr, no it really isn't. The one thing that vegans categorically don't do is eat meat or other animal products.
To eat a steak then call yourself a vegan because you were on first names terms with the cow is frankly ludicrous.

[CaptainCabinets]

Wastefulness is far worse. I don’t think I’d mention it, OP. I wouldn’t want to put the ball in her court and force her to choose between accepting a gift with animal products in it or wasting the gift. Ignorance really is bliss, sometimes.

[TractorAndHeadphones]

@Chikapu

That's the point though veganism is a whole complex lifestyle in which people pick different things from not a 'diet'.

Errr, no it really isn't. The one thing that vegans categorically don't do is eat meat or other animal products.
To eat a steak then call yourself a vegan because you were on first names terms with the cow is frankly ludicrous.

I would also add that feeding a vegan meat might make them ill.
Someone who already eats meat OTOH.

The complex lifestyle probably comes from the avoiding all animal products.

[EmmaJR1]

@HangingOutWithTheSandman

Offloading the decision to her - "here's something you'd love, but unfortunately it is painted with dead animals' bodily fluids because I did not bother to check" also seems like cowardice.

I would word it, ‘I had something very personal made for you and only after, did I find out that it contains animal products. I just didn’t think as they’re not obvious animal products and now I don’t know what to do. So, I’m telling you because I driven myself mad with it and I’m kicking myself not to have realised sooner. I don’t expect you to want the present, but I would love for you to see it anyway, so you know the thought was there’

You’ve then taken away any feeling of obligation for her to have it, but she may step in and say she would still like to have it.

I think this is a really lovely way to approach it

[Lokdok]

Definitely don't mention it, it would really spoil it for her!! She'll be like wow, beautiful art... then you say sorry it was painted with a squirrel's tail and that colour there is part of a cow, etc. would kind of put a dampener on it!!

[EezyOozy]

Agree that wastefulness is far worse. She doesn't need to know how the sausage is made Op.... if she looked in depth at every product she uses she'd probably get a shock. Just give it to her and move on!

[mam0918]

[quote TractorAndHeadphones]@mam0918 well then she’s not vegan.
She might be an ethical meat consumer meaning she only consumes animal products she makes - but she’s not vegan.

And really terms don’t matter much as the level of accommodation.

Your friend only eats her own meat because animal welfare is important. Someone else might only eat meat from certain places to avoid chemicals etc. May be a slippery slope but at what point does it become ‘just’ a preference as opposed to something that must be ‘unquestionably’ honoured like religion?

On an individual level you know the person, but if a guest of someone else said they were vegan - and I went to great effort to make vegan food only to find out that they DID eat meat, just on their own terms I wouldn’t be very pleased.[/quote]
I never said she ate meat... no idea where you got that from.

[mam0918]

@Chikapu

That's the point though veganism is a whole complex lifestyle in which people pick different things from not a 'diet'.

Errr, no it really isn't. The one thing that vegans categorically don't do is eat meat or other animal products.
To eat a steak then call yourself a vegan because you were on first names terms with the cow is frankly ludicrous.

who is eating stake... at no point did I say she was killing and eating animals... she uses eggs, feathers and wool the animals naturally shed.

[Elphame]

I’d tell her.

I’m veggie not vegan but the ox gall would be a problem for me.

[HangingOutWithTheSandman]

who is eating stake... at no point did I say she was killing and eating animals... she uses eggs, feathers and wool the animals naturally shed.

If she eats animal products, which eggs are, she’s not vegan.

[SexyNeckbeard]

@mam0918

I think veganism is so complex.

I have a vegan friend who wont go near anything non vegan (I learned from her that vegans cant even have honey because it is bees spit... who would have thought?)

I have a vegan friend that runs a rescue farm and farms and eats her own produce just not 'farmed' produce where she doesn't know the animals are cared for.

I heard another vegan say they are switching to vintage leather because pleather is so bad for the environment and they go through it so quickly but leather last 30+ years so environmentally 1 cow vs 15 plastic coats is better.

For what it's worth, I'm not vegan but I would not knowingly want something dripping with the juice of ox innards on my wall but I also wouldn't think to check a painting for what's in it unless it smelled like dead ox.

You didn't know where honey comes from? I believe the issue with honey is that it's incredibly exploitative of the bees - not that it's bee spit. The bees honey is removed and replaced with a lesser product (sugar syrup), queen bees have their wings clipped, foreign bees are imported to fill hives (bad for the environment). Whole hives are culled after the honey is removed.

I'm suspicious of your vegan friends - especially the egg eating vegan

[mycatthinksshesatiger]

As a vegan,I would say absolutely no way. I would be gutted to be given something like that and would have to give it away. It's so upsetting to think someone would paint using those materials and it could seriously impact your friendship if she diezn't know and later finds out. . But I guess she may not be as sensitive to these things so you could explain and give her the choice. I know you meant well but personally I would be horrified that someone had produced something specially for me using animal ingredients.

[Sn0tnose]

I would definitely tell her. You can always claim ignorance but what if she does what you do and starts searching out the artist to see more of his work? It could make her hate something she’d initially loved. If you tell her, she’ll see the love and the thoughtfulness behind your gift, as well as the respect you have for her vegan beliefs.

My DB and SiL are vegan, there is no way I’d give them anything with any animal derivatives in it. They’d be so upset.