Gifting non-vegan art to a vegan friend

[forinborin]

A ridiculous first world problem of today.

And the problem is that I commissioned a painting for one of my old dear friends as a Christmas present and just realised now that the artist uses quite a lot of animal-derived products in their work (ox gall as a primer, sable/squirrel brushes, things like that). Realised after watching some video tutorials of the said artist.

The friend is long-term vegetarian, turned vegan around a year ago. Quite strict about it (not in a proselytising way, but all close people know).

Would it be ethically ok to still give it to her? Or would it be below the "tolerance" level? Or do I ask her first if she is ok with it (it was intended as a surprise, so this will ruin it in a sense)? I feel so stupid now for not checking, but it is not something that occurred to me at all.

[limitedperiodonly]

Either give her something else or tell her but be prepared for her to refuse it. She's your friend so she'll understand and appreciate your honesty.

You weren't to know. It's amazing how many animal products are in every day items or used in their production.

I'm not a vegan or vegetarian and wear leather and fur but t's so boring for people like @Robostripes to say if you take veganism seriously you wouldn't be able to buy anything. That's irrelevant. Your friend has decided she wants to try.

As for PP saying give it to her because she won't know. Would they give a Jew or Muslim something cooked in pork fat or a Hindu something cooked in beef fat and not mention it? Can recovering alcoholics eat your sherry trifle if its your signature dish? By their standards probably.

Money always works for me as a present . But do a bank transfer. I believe polymer notes have beef tallow in them but that might be just a rumour.

[Chikapu]

@MorningStarling

She's not going to eat it so I think it's fine to give it to her. I am not a vegan and would have zero problem with being given a piece of art that had no animal-based products in it - I wouldn't even think about it to be honest.

If she objects then reconsider whether she's deserving of a gift anyway.

Wut?

[Lavender24]

@MorningStarling

She's not going to eat it so I think it's fine to give it to her. I am not a vegan and would have zero problem with being given a piece of art that had no animal-based products in it - I wouldn't even think about it to be honest.

If she objects then reconsider whether she's deserving of a gift anyway.

You can't possibly be serious?

[Excited101]

I would just give it op. If she investigates everything enough to not have any traces in her home, then she’ll find out for herself. It’s her self enforced restrictions, not yours.

[TuftyMarmoset]

Anyone who says ‘she’s not eating it’ clearly has no idea what being vegan means

I don’t eat my shoes either but I still buy vegan ones!

[cereallover]

Christ..

[HangingOutWithTheSandman]

TuftyMarmoset

I think some of it is people who try to wind up vegans on threads like this. Then when the vegans respond, they usually start calling them preachy. There’s just no need for it, OP did a lovely thing in getting the painting but wants to be respectful to her friends views.

[user478932071]

No this isn’t acceptable, you need to ask your friend as it would be a personal decision, would you give her a genuine leather bag? Also why are you asking non-vegans who are not very bothered about animal welfare.

[1940s]

I'm a vegan and I would accept this gift and be grateful. I wouldn't buy it directly for myself but as a gift of something commissioned and I assume hugely specific (a painting of my family for example ) I wouldn't want it going to waste.

As a vegan I sometimes sit on leather seats, if I require medication or vaccinations I take them and I've kept my old leather and wool items and when they wear out I replace them with non vegan items.

[Tomatalillo]

@Duvetflower

I would talk to her about it beforehand. Otherwise she'll be really happy with her lovely gift, display it in her home and then at some point she'll decide to learn more about the artist, and potentially be really upset and put in an awkward position.

This. Just explain that you didn’t realise until it was too late. That way you can both have an open discussion

[SarahBellam]

I’d check with the artist first, on the off chance that she hadn’t used animal products. If she had I would tell my friend and offer her the choice. Morally and ethically, that’s the most honourable way forward.

[EishetChayil]

Just don't tell her!

[TractorAndHeadphones]

@Excited101

I would just give it op. If she investigates everything enough to not have any traces in her home, then she’ll find out for herself. It’s her self enforced restrictions, not yours.

This.
Plenty of things have animal products used in the process even if the final results are vegan.
Even though you know I wouldn’t think it’s a big enough deal to tell her.

[WhereYouLeftIt]

@HangingOutWithTheSandman

Offloading the decision to her - "here's something you'd love, but unfortunately it is painted with dead animals' bodily fluids because I did not bother to check" also seems like cowardice.

I would word it, ‘I had something very personal made for you and only after, did I find out that it contains animal products. I just didn’t think as they’re not obvious animal products and now I don’t know what to do. So, I’m telling you because I driven myself mad with it and I’m kicking myself not to have realised sooner. I don’t expect you to want the present, but I would love for you to see it anyway, so you know the thought was there’

You’ve then taken away any feeling of obligation for her to have it, but she may step in and say she would still like to have it.

That's really well put, Sandman.

Personally, I would never have thought of animal products being in/used for a painting. Every day's a schoolday!

[WildStallyn]

@trumpisagit

I am a vegan (and lifelong vegetarian). It wouldn't occur to me to check re art.
Definitely give it to her, and don't mention the production issues (I wouldn't want to know).
You sound very generous, but I think you are over thinking it.

I was going to respond with pretty much this.

[Calmdown14]

I wouldn't tell her. You'd never have known if you hadn't decided to research further. You also don't know for certain. The artist may prefer this for their top level work but it may not be cost effective in every commission.
If you tell her then it's immediately tainted. If she finds out later and tells you she can't hang it, be understanding and apologize for not realising

[SueSaid]

You know, that is the difference. If you'd just bought her a picture then you wouldn't know what products were used but you know with this so of course you tell her.

As an aside it would seem a bit questionable to rather extravagantly commission a painting for a vegan friend without establishing that cruelty free methods and cruelty free equipment were used. Maybe a lush gift set next year?

[mam0918]

I think veganism is so complex.

I have a vegan friend who wont go near anything non vegan (I learned from her that vegans cant even have honey because it is bees spit... who would have thought?)

I have a vegan friend that runs a rescue farm and farms and eats her own produce just not 'farmed' produce where she doesn't know the animals are cared for.

I heard another vegan say they are switching to vintage leather because pleather is so bad for the environment and they go through it so quickly but leather last 30+ years so environmentally 1 cow vs 15 plastic coats is better.

For what it's worth, I'm not vegan but I would not knowingly want something dripping with the juice of ox innards on my wall but I also wouldn't think to check a painting for what's in it unless it smelled like dead ox.

[1940s]

@mam0918

I think veganism is so complex.

I have a vegan friend who wont go near anything non vegan (I learned from her that vegans cant even have honey because it is bees spit... who would have thought?)

I have a vegan friend that runs a rescue farm and farms and eats her own produce just not 'farmed' produce where she doesn't know the animals are cared for.

I heard another vegan say they are switching to vintage leather because pleather is so bad for the environment and they go through it so quickly but leather last 30+ years so environmentally 1 cow vs 15 plastic coats is better.

For what it's worth, I'm not vegan but I would not knowingly want something dripping with the juice of ox innards on my wall but I also wouldn't think to check a painting for what's in it unless it smelled like dead ox.

There's no way you can call someone a vegan if they eat the animals they look after. That's a ludicrous claim from that person 😂

[ClawedButler]

Well, it depends WHY someone is vegan as to where their line in the sand is drawn.
Some do it to help the environment, as part of their overall "trying to live responsibly as far as is practical" lifestyle.
Some do it for health reasons, and will accept non-vegan things that aren't food, and may occasionally knowingly eat things that are not vegan (like the potatoes cooked in lamb fat)
And some, like me, do it because the idea of using bits of sentient creatures as food or decoration is revolting to them. I would emphatically NOT knowingly eat potatoes cooked in lamb fat. I would feel VERY upset that I was knowingly given something (painting, clothing, whatever) that actually contained animal parts and found out about it later.

You seem like a lovely friend, and an open, honest conversation will not only show her how much you care about her and her feelings, but also give you a definitive answer of what to do.

[ClawedButler]

And yes, as a PP pointed out - those saying "Don't tell her", would you give pork to a Muslim or Jew and not tell them? Because for many vegans, it is as profound and personal and powerful as that.

[forinborin]

As an aside it would seem a bit questionable to rather extravagantly commission a painting for a vegan friend without establishing that cruelty free methods and cruelty free equipment were used. Maybe a lush gift set next year?
It is not extravagant, not that much difference from a lush set cost wise (it is not happening in the UK). Under £100 expense all in all. I did not even think that animal cruelty might be even applicable to paintings, now I know better.

[HangingOutWithTheSandman]

I have a vegan friend that runs a rescue farm and farms and eats her own produce just not 'farmed' produce where she doesn't know the animals are cared for.

I mean, I love that she runs a rescue farm. But as a pp said, her diet is not vegan.

[Carpetdrought]

Kim, there’s people that are dying

[ClawedButler]

I mean, I fully support anyone trying to cut down their meat or dairy consumption, just don't call yourself a vegan if you're patently not!