Gifting non-vegan art to a vegan friend

[forinborin]

A ridiculous first world problem of today.

And the problem is that I commissioned a painting for one of my old dear friends as a Christmas present and just realised now that the artist uses quite a lot of animal-derived products in their work (ox gall as a primer, sable/squirrel brushes, things like that). Realised after watching some video tutorials of the said artist.

The friend is long-term vegetarian, turned vegan around a year ago. Quite strict about it (not in a proselytising way, but all close people know).

Would it be ethically ok to still give it to her? Or would it be below the "tolerance" level? Or do I ask her first if she is ok with it (it was intended as a surprise, so this will ruin it in a sense)? I feel so stupid now for not checking, but it is not something that occurred to me at all.

[Chachasha]

I am not a vegan and would have zero problem with being given a piece of art that had no animal-based products in it

Can we all just take a moment to digest that there are people in the world with logical thought processes like this.

[LemonSwan]

We had this literally last week. Big meal for multiple people including 2 vegans. It was bloody delicious - cue discussion from the non vegans on how they managed to get the roasties so perfect. Secretly I think the vegans knew but didnt want to know for sure. Comes the realisation that a few spoonfuls of lamb fat have been added and host had made a 1 second lapse of judgement whilst handling a hot pan.

I honestly just felt like it made it awkward for everyone. The vegans decided to eat the potatoes anyway because they were bloody delicious! So the whole exercise only served to make the host feel bad for messing up and the vegans to have a downer put on their potatoes.

Thats why I wouldnt say anything. It only serves to put a downer on an otherwise very special and potentially much loved gift.

[AlexaShutUp]

@Chachasha

I am not a vegan and would have zero problem with being given a piece of art that had no animal-based products in it

Can we all just take a moment to digest that there are people in the world with logical thought processes like this.

The mind boggles, doesn't it?!

[Outdoorbeanbags]

@UsernameInTheTown

I came here for the bacon sculpture/lamb chop collage. How dissapointing.

[Tulipomania]

@Robostripes

If you take veganism to this level you wouldn’t be able to buy anything. Every single thing you buy will have been manufactured by people wearing leather shoes, who drove to the factory in vehicles with leather seats etc …

I’d give it to her and not say anything.

This ^

[Itsalmostanaccessory]

Does she wear any handmade jewellery? Made my independent jewellers in their workshop, not mass produced or cast?

Because jeweller's use raw hide pallets for forming, and bees wax on saw blades etc.

Only you will know how strict she is.

[HangingOutWithTheSandman]

This is gold. Thanks - this definitely will be the approach I am going to take.

Glad to help. Above all, I hope she realises how lucky she is to have such a thoughtful friend.

[Itsalmostanaccessory]

@MorningStarling

She's not going to eat it so I think it's fine to give it to her. I am not a vegan and would have zero problem with being given a piece of art that had no animal-based products in it - I wouldn't even think about it to be honest.

If she objects then reconsider whether she's deserving of a gift anyway.

This is some actual crazy mental gymnastics to get this and thing it is actually logical.

It would be one thing to fleetingly think it and realise how totally daft you sound, but to then type it out and post it take it to a whole new level of idiocy.

[forinborin]

@Itsalmostanaccessory

Does she wear any handmade jewellery? Made my independent jewellers in their workshop, not mass produced or cast?

Because jeweller's use raw hide pallets for forming, and bees wax on saw blades etc.

Only you will know how strict she is.

I have no idea... neither of us is much into jewellery tbh, it is not on the radar.
She's quite similar to how one of PPs described herself - if she wants something, she'll spend significant time looking for a vegan alternative, but if it doesn't exist, she'd rather go without.

[Amelion]

What a dilemma!

You didn’t know and had the best of intentions - really, it sounds like a very thoughtful and generous gift.

I’d give it to her and explain. If it was me - I’d rather have the painting that all the effort going to waste. And the kind thought behind it would be really swaying me to keep it. Though I recongnise like PPs have said it would make many vegans feel uncomfortable/gross me out.

But all vegans are different and have different lines in the sand - some will wear second hand leather shoes and some won’t, some would rather have a cuppa a coffee shops has accidentally made with cow milk than waste it and start again etc.

I say be honest and open and let her decide what to do with it. Hope it works out, you sound like a lovely and kind friend.

[HangingOutWithTheSandman]

The vegans decided to eat the potatoes anyway because they were bloody delicious! So the whole exercise only served to make the host feel bad for messing up and the vegans to have a downer put on their potatoes.

I don’t know any vegans who would have ate them. But I wouldn’t have wanted anyone to feel awkward and would have just ate the vegan food and made an extra fuss of how lovely it all is.

[EezyOozy]

Surely nearly all art contains some animal derivatives , or some kind of animal product was used in the process. I think you just have too much information op, just give it to her and don't go into unnecessary details.

I used to run a stained glass business and used tallow candles as flux. Im sure plenty of vegetarians have stained glass in their homes !!

[heldinadream]

I'd just like to point out the impossibility of 100% veganism, for the following reason (among others).
Your TV, computer, phone and tablet use animal cholesterol in the liquid crystals in the screens.

[Inthewainscoting]

You're right OP, be.100%. honest. And as a PP said, offer to frame a photo of it for her instead. (And check with her how said print might be made, just in case).

[EezyOozy]

And let's not forget gelatine in cinema film reels.... and in medication capsules.

[EezyOozy]

The op has commissioned a lively piece of art which has been made using some animal products - just like all other art - and people are suggesting she should offer her vegan friend a photograph of it instead of the actual item?!! 😂 MN is just so bonkers.

[YourenutsmiLord]

Would she prefer if he used petroleum based paints and synthetic brushes?
The ox gall is probably a by product - would she really object?

[SirVixofVixHall]

@heldinadream

I'd just like to point out the impossibility of 100% veganism, for the following reason (among others).
Your TV, computer, phone and tablet use animal cholesterol in the liquid crystals in the screens.

I agree. Cars/trains/buses kill insects with every drive , even bikes. Unless you walk everywhere, sweeping the ground before you like the wonderful Jain people, then you will be unwittingly killing creatures.
Gall is a by product not a direct product.

[TheRooom]

@MorningStarling

She's not going to eat it so I think it's fine to give it to her. I am not a vegan and would have zero problem with being given a piece of art that had no animal-based products in it - I wouldn't even think about it to be honest.

If she objects then reconsider whether she's deserving of a gift anyway.

I wouldn't know where to start with this.

[Dixiechickonhols]

I think I’d have an honest conversation with her. It’s been done from a good place with a lot of thought and care but you are also mindful of her Veganism. Maybe show her and let her mull it over. If she feels she can’t in all conscious accept it could you keep it as a reminder of your friend even if subject matter is more personal to her.

[UltraVividLament]

The definition of veganism from The Vegan Society -

"Veganism is a philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude—as far as is possible and practicable—all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose; and by extension, promotes the development and use of animal-free alternatives for the benefit of animals, humans and the environment. In dietary terms it denotes the practice of dispensing with all products derived wholly or partly from animals."

The key part is "as far as is possible and practicable". No one could practicably avoid killing insects accidentally when driving or on public transport, or just walking, for example. But in many cases its possible to find medication capsules that are not made from gelatine, or find an alternative to capsules. And most films/photos are digital these days rather than stored on gelatin based film.

The extent to which each person defines possible and practicable depends on their own personal circumstances and beliefs. The only way to know for sure where the friend stands on that is to explain and ask her.

[JellyfishandShells]

I’m a watercolourist and brush type is very important to me. I use different brushes for different subject/types ie very detailed using relatively dry paint or washes using more dilute paint in larger sweeps.

Sable/synthetic blends work well for something like portraiture because you have the water holding properties of sable with the springiness of the synthetic. My sable/synthetics also keep their points for longer.

I’ve got a bottle of ox gall but have never really used it - it’s a dispersant, helps the paint flow and stay wet longer so is helpful for blending, though there are other techniques and materials that affect that.

[RosiePosieDozy]

You sound really lovely. You seem a good friend buying something unique and personalised for her.

The message a pp proposed sounds good.

Your friend may still want the present. I know quite a few vegans. She may feel that it's a lovely painting and it's already made if you know what I mean, it already exists, so it might as well be enjoyed. All you can do is inform her what happened and let her decide.

[NandorTheRelentless]

@MorningStarling

She's not going to eat it so I think it's fine to give it to her. I am not a vegan and would have zero problem with being given a piece of art that had no animal-based products in it - I wouldn't even think about it to be honest.

If she objects then reconsider whether she's deserving of a gift anyway.

Not quite the same thing though is it?

Vegan dont wear leather, or use products that have animal bits in. I think she will not want it in her house.

Obviously its not in your face like a leather jacket would be, but on the other hand if she is really dedicated to veganism, then she probably wont want it

[heldinadream]

And most films/photos are digital these days rather than stored on gelatin based film.
So I'll say it again - your SCREEN has animal products in it. So digital does not cut it I'm afraid.