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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

ok, i probably am, but the way new mothers do thing s now, and there attitude is really getting on my nerves.

482 replies

pukkapatch · 18/12/2007 17:56

rant alert
te entire holier than thou attitude. huge genreralistaion, i know. but whats so speical about waiting till the baby is six months old before weaning that will garantee said mothers a direct ticket to heaven?
from what i recall, upping the age to six months didnt happen because of some amazing scintific breakthrough. no new data was used t o make the decision. (a mnetter showed the evidence of this on some thread.
and then the whole breast bottle thing. the ones spouting statistics at everyone, with their smug expressions. it doesnt matter. every mom does what she sees as best for her baby. we dont constantly need to have information shoved in our noses.

my eldest is ten, and youngest four, so i'm not that far away from these subjects, but, some peoples attitudes just really really get on my tits.

OP posts:
Niecie · 21/12/2007 21:39

I thought we had moved on from that about 2 days ago because I refused to single people out when you wanted me to name names. Even the OP doesn't recognise her own thread anymore. But hey if you want to harking back to that you carry on.

Aitch · 21/12/2007 22:50

but why should it be moved on from, i don't understand. it's the whole premise of your argument, isn't it? you have sympathy for the way that pukka feels because you've observed it too, on here. i haven't and i was interested in seeing where it was demonstrated.
after all, the other day you linked to a thread where you claimed someone had been jumped on and bullied into bfing in order to underline a point you were making, before later agreeing that in fact the woman had received good advice and been treated well.
it's only because you keep darkly saying that you've 'seen x, y or z' that anyone's asking to see them too. if you didn't keep using these hazy instances to back up your point no one would ask you about them. but yes, make out like you're being asked to 'name names'... MN as HUAC, that would be interesting...

amytheearwaxbanisher · 21/12/2007 22:59

let them shine their halosim standing on a street corner pushing fruitshoots as i type

tiktok · 21/12/2007 23:40

BJB, you say "I think most parents are aware of the guidelines roughly, just not in the depth of some mumsnetters."

And that is wrong/makes you feel uncomfortable/is not to be encouraged precisely why???

I don't understand why there is something wrong about knowing guidelines! Please help me! Should I not know these guidelines? Or perhaps pretend not to know them...would that be better?

BJB21 · 22/12/2007 08:57

sorry tiktok, my posting came out wrong. Nothing wrong with knowing guidelines in any depth! wHAT I dislike on mumsnet is people constantly quoting em!i find it boring! thats it in a nutshell for me. Im feeling happy today cos its almost Xmas {fsmile]

BJB21 · 22/12/2007 08:57

sorry meant

tiktok · 22/12/2007 10:17

Ah, I see....you don't mind people knowing them in depth, you just don't want to know that they know them, because you find it boring. Bit self-centred of you, doncha think??

I don't know that people 'constantly' quote them - seems to me it's done in proportion to the questions asked. So if someone asks a question and guidelines might contrtibute to the answer they need, then you will prob see someone quoting the guidelines.

Seems fair enough to me.

After all, people come onto mumsnet as newbies all the time, or their babies reach a new stage all the time, and they may not be aware of guidelines...and may wish to make them part of their decision making.

But you find it boring. It doesn't matter to you that some people find it interesting and useful, apparently.

Here's an idea - why not skip or skim the posts you find boring or steer clear of threads where you think you might be bored? That's what most people do, rather than complaining that people post information they find boring.

Seems a simple way forward!

How about it?

Niecie · 22/12/2007 10:32

Aitch the woman had been given good advice but there were still people who were being jumped on and it was a shame that somebody who was asking for advice had to go through that. You interpreted it differently to me. Fine. I wasn't alone in my opinion and I didn' start the thread.

The argument has moved on this thread because people are now debating the relevance of the guidelines in relation to personal experience which I haven't and have never had a problem with - it is a question of balance and where you put the emphasis.

I will state for the very last time, if you can be bothered to read it, that I don't have a problem with guidelines, I followed them myself but I also think there is a place for personal experiences to be shared, even if they don't exactly follow the guidelines because that is what MN is all about, sharing experiences. Do you really think that people reading a thread can't make their minds up for themselves what to take away from the advice and what is not best practice? What does it matter to you if people don't do exactly as the guidelines suggest - just ignore them. That is the premise of my argument, that everybody should be allowed to share.

Of course if you want to keep going on back to a thread that was over several days ago and the initial OP of this one when we have long since moved on, you carry on but I won't be joining you.

yuckihatecheesestrings · 22/12/2007 10:33

Yay! A bit af Sat morning argy bargy!!!

I'm quite new to MN but I learnt v quickly to avoid BreastF/BottleF debates here (why am I bothering with this one?). If you admit to BFing and dare to express opinions you get lynched for being an ignorant HolierThanThou . Some MNers seem to think people who admit to breast feeding in someway think they are superior. Well said Oblomov, YOU HAVE TO TAKE IT THE RIGHT WAY!

Do what's best for you to do to feed your baby it's up to you. People are different, that have different perspectives and priorities.

DrowningInSellotape · 22/12/2007 11:33

Niecie, I'm sorry to see you are going round in circles and I admire the fact that you have remained so calm and reasoned in the face of some very illogical lines of argument. It looks like we have to realise that some people will never be able to have a discussion showing respect for all participants' views, whether they agree with them or not. I have appreciated seeing my views presented in your posts, in a far more articulate and calm way than I could ever manage myself. Thank you.

Saturn74 · 22/12/2007 11:54

Interesting first post, DrowningInSellotape.

LoveAngelGabriel · 22/12/2007 11:57

Just actually bothered to read this thread (ok, skim through - 426 posts after a glass of mulled wine at midday - not gonna happen!) and I have to say that Niecie's last few posts have been the most sensible on here.

DrowningInSellotape · 22/12/2007 12:01

Thank you Humphrey, I tend to usually just read what others are putting & to use MN to look up info/opinions but felt I wanted to say that about Niecie, I prob won't bother to post anymore as v.v. busy especially att the moment and you know what, i fully expect to check back on this thread later and see the usual suspects back on here with their odd way of going round&round in circles, boring in-jokes and missing the point.... phew that felt good,
Happy Christmas all,
& Niecie There are a lot of us just watching and quietly agreeing. have a good one.

Aitch · 22/12/2007 12:02

er, but i've never disagreed with neicie on ANY of the points she's just made. not ONE of them. Just to be clear about that.
'course she keeps saying that she's not goiing to talk about it any more then coming back and refining her point, while ignoring the fact that i have said we have much to agree about.

i have disagreed with spurious and unsubstantiated allegations that older mothers are being 'looked down upon' by new mothers (because it's not true and why would it be true, it bears no scrutiny for all the reasons she just stated, that MN is precisely a place to share experiences).

but i absolutely reserve the right to point out that a sample of 2 healthy children does not make 'rubbish' of research conducted over tens of thousands of children and confounded for lifestyle factors that we can never know about if it's one random MNer. and that's not looking down at older mothers, but it is looking down at people who rubbish research as 'ridiculous' because they are too mulish to think about it now that their kids are older.

Aitch · 22/12/2007 12:04

AMEN, loveangel, Neicie's last few posts have been very sensible indeed. it's just that she seems to have forgotten most of what she was saying previously.

VVVExcitedAboutChristmasQV · 22/12/2007 12:44
DogMa · 22/12/2007 14:27

"i have disagreed with spurious and unsubstantiated allegations that older mothers are being 'looked down upon' by new mothers (because it's not true and why would it be true, it bears no scrutiny for all the reasons she just stated, that MN is precisely a place to share experiences)".

It is true and it does happen, both on MN and in RL. New mums can be quite dismissive or scathing of older mums experiences, as has been pointed out further down this thread.

Here we go round the mulberry bush, the mulberry bush.....

LoveAngelGabriel · 22/12/2007 14:33

@ aitch

I admit I haven't read all Niecie's replies (or most of the thread!) so feel free to tell me to shut the f up!

Aitch · 22/12/2007 14:56

ne-VAH!

Niecie · 23/12/2007 15:28

Thank you Loveangelgabriel and Drowninginsellotape (great name btw). I don't quite know how I got embroiled in this anyway since I am a guidelines follower myself. However, I jus think it take all sorts and I do think the regulars do tend to be rigid in their outlook.

And I still do think that people with a differing view to them are not given a fair hearing. It is not for us to judge them or whether their arguments are scientifically proven or are statistically valid. We are just a bunch of mothers not a research project. We can take out of discussions what we want and ignore the rest.

tiktok · 24/12/2007 10:31

Neicie, can you link to say, two or three posters who represent 'the regulars', and have them being rigid or judgemental?

I thank you.

VictorianSqualor · 24/12/2007 14:54

FWIW, The people on here that I have found to be the most for say weaning or breastfeeding IME, are the ones that are normally most accepting of the other ways people do things.
It's the ones who are anti guidelines and gov recc's etc that seem to 'poo-poo' everything else.
I have more often read 'Breastfeeding doesn't matter, it makes no difference' than I have anything else.

halia · 26/12/2007 20:10

no you're not - I've given up trying to make friends with other parents cos I am sick to death of being told/given the impression that my son would grow up retarded/school drop out/ on drugs/ emotionally damaged for life/ not grow up at all because I.. didn't breastfeed/ didn't feed homepureed oragnic mush/ gave him chocolate/ put him in his own room at 3 weeks etc etc

Its the 'everyone knows it best to...' statements that get me.

and musment isn't 'enlightment or factual' its the varied opinions and rants of variuosly misinformed parents. (even if you quote a survey your post isn't factual, the original piece of research MAY be factual but it should still pass the 5star process for independance, sample size, peer review, age of data, external factor variations.)

BJB21 · 26/12/2007 21:49

spot on Halia.

tiktok · 27/12/2007 10:36

halia - it's sad you've given up making friends with other poarents

Does mumsnet have a lot of the 'everyone knows it's best to.....' statements? I have never seen any . Anything vaguely similar is always jumped on as far as I can see (apart from very obvious stuff - I don't suppose anyone saying it's always best to look both ways before crossing the road would be considered to be dogmatic).