ok, i probably am, but the way new mothers do thing s now, and there attitude is really getting on my nerves.

[pukkapatch]

rant alert
te entire holier than thou attitude. huge genreralistaion, i know. but whats so speical about waiting till the baby is six months old before weaning that will garantee said mothers a direct ticket to heaven?
from what i recall, upping the age to six months didnt happen because of some amazing scintific breakthrough. no new data was used t o make the decision. (a mnetter showed the evidence of this on some thread.
and then the whole breast bottle thing. the ones spouting statistics at everyone, with their smug expressions. it doesnt matter. every mom does what she sees as best for her baby. we dont constantly need to have information shoved in our noses.

my eldest is ten, and youngest four, so i'm not that far away from these subjects, but, some peoples attitudes just really really get on my tits.

And as to the importance of bf, what the raw research is finding is that bf isn't as important as MN discussions make it out to be.

It's a LOT more important - new results coming out indicate that it can have a profound influence over health lifelong.

Deciding how feed a baby could well be the most important decision parents make. It's criminal that people have so little access to proper, detailed information about this.

We could probably google for peoples blogs and stories in mags etc for experiences as well.
Now IMO, if someone comes on a thread and says do this, I did with ds/dd and it helped me, butthis is against guidelines I'll stand up and say, that may sound great but it isn't reccommended because XYZ.

By saying we should only talk about our experiences you're pretty much saying that we should give advice regardless of and in spite of guidelines, when really we should give advice and guidelines, otherwise what the heck is the point in this research anyway??

I've yet to meet an MNer that says do not put baby to sleep the way FSID's guidelines say you shoudl though, even mothers who put their babies to sleep in other ways. It seems the only time we shouldn't metion guidelines is when it won't immediately kill our child, but may cause them longterm harm instead.

I can't believe that people are being berated for treating things too seriously - this thread is hilarious!

People worrying about having 'facts shoved down their throats' is really funny....I mean, it is meant to be a joke, innit?

I am pretty sure I am implicated inb the criticism of people who do the fact-shoving, too, but you know what, I don't give a flying thingummy.

BJB, you are obviously still bruised from the very mild bruising you got a week or so ago when you admitted you were wrong to bring in your midwifery status, and to quote with approval your colleague's opinion that safe preparation of formula was 'ridiculous' - you were actually treated very kindly and politely, as I recall, except by one single poster (yes, one) who had the (rather crazy) idea to report you! If you want fluffy kittens and hearts and flowers, and to avoid robust challenges to your opinion, then you might be better off away from mumsnet. If you can cope with a bit of rough and tumble, then hang on here

If it wasn't for the facts that people on here post, I'd be in a right ole tizz right now about an appointment I had yesterday btw, but because people posted facts (as well as experiences) I know a hell of a lot more than I did and can be calmer about it.

neicie, i can bow state unequivocally that you are reading things that aren't on the page.

now state

lol, the b was there on the page, just not the bit where i scoffed at the oldies.

i can cope with rough n tumble alrite!
I agree with niecie though that if i want guidelines etc etc i can search for them/download the on the net i just dont want people to type them out and repeat the to me.

In fact i often search for info this way, re- reading NICE guideline for example. What annoys me is people just retyping these guidelines. I dont come on mumsnet for that. I like to hear peoples expeiences so it feels more like listening to a friend than reading a book. IM SORRY if anything ive said comes across diferently.

think its nice to hear peoples own experiences of doing things or coping even if its not the 'correct' way. Sometimes you learn something other times you think 'no way' would i do that, its the statistics that get me!

But BJB, not everyone does search for guidelines, nor do they know them, then they come on MN ask for help and someone will give them it, sometimes in the form of guidelines/statistics.
I was on a thread the other day, the poster was talking about expressing when bfing, she wanted to know how soon to give a bottle, her baby was 4 weeks old. The first poster told her there was no such thing as nipple confusion and to express whenever she wanted.
I don't know the stats for nipple confusion but I bloody wish I had.

Here's a bit of rough and tumble for you, then, BJB

I have yet to see more than the occasional quote of entire pages and pages - usually people will quote a paragraph at the most and give the link, just to make their post digestible.

You don't need the guidelines, clearly, you being a midwife, you know everything there is to know about guidelines, even though you may think some of them are riduculous, but many posters here won't have heard of NICE, for instance (or else they'll think it's a biscuit )..... and it's important to quote exact guidance (plus a link) as it gives credibility to the post. Otherwise people might make stuff up .

This is not shoving facts down people's throats. It's being an adult, and trusting that other people are adult, too, and can see evidence for themselves.

No, it's not fluffy kittens, sorry.

Ah tiktok, maybe I could pick your brains for any nipple confusion stats you have?

This thread is so long and extraordinary that I'm reluctant to delve in but I just want to pick up the point about not wanting guidlines and stats on a discussion board.

Without a few facts and links, discussion is just based on personal experience. It's boring and uninformed. The reason I love Mumsnet and can't tear myself away from it to do my housework, is because I know that I will learn from it. When I want advice, I want informed advice, not advice from people who don't know anything. That's the beauty of this place. People will always back their opinions up with hard evidence. If all you've got to oppose hard evidence, is personal experience, then you don't have a very good argument, sorry. An adult way to respond would be to go away and get some evidence for your case, not to whinge about the fact that other people are better-informed than you.

Sleighbells, great post.

Why thank you! What evidence do you have for that surmise?

why the shock that im a midwife!!Arent we normal people then? Just because im disagreeing with all the people who quote guidelines??!!

Anyway, i still disagree tiktok re:quoting stuff from net. when someone does a search on net for say weaaning or whatever not just mumsnet comes up but thousnads of other sites, many being the 'official' ones that give us guidance.

I think if someone comes on mumsnet and specifically asks for statistics etc. then thats fine if someone wants to quote them, but not if they are just asking for advice.Then they get bombarded with stuff from the WHO website. Some people must end up more confused.

For example, if i wanted to discuss weaning i would like to hear from mums who have maybe done it early/late and were successful or those who had had problems. Just a general for and against discussion. What i wouldnt want is facts and figures on the percentage of kids who get allergies. Maybe thats what some people do want and in that case they will ask.

Perhaps it's expected that someone from the medical profession would be more open to advice on best practice which includes the latest research. . . . .

I personally like a combination of experience and stats and clinical research. Why not go for the whole balanced combination?

When you click on these sites though it can still be a hard trawl through pages and pages of "stuff" before you get to the bit you are looking for and IF you are not really surte what it is you are looking for in the first place then you could miss something that later on you might wish for whatever reason you had read.

You know what I DO want the facts and figures on percentages of allergies etc and you know why because I am actually a pretty smart woman and I want to make EDUCATED and INFORMED choices when I wean my children and unless I have all this information how can I do that???
When I had my first child I was pretty clueless and it might have taken someone to say to me these are the guidleines, these are that facts and figures this is whay they suggest you do/don't do XYZ. Some or most of these things may not have occured to me as a new mum, this like most things in life comes with experience. If nobody had posted these facts and figures I may not have realised the damage that could be done or even that there are some of these guidelines out there.

i am open to advice on best practice in my professional life, absolutely. I hate those midwives that dont move with the times!! i am talking about my homelife here tho. IM sorry, the way i choose to raise my children doesnt always have to be backed up with the latest research, gosh i feel like im doing my disseration again or some other research project.

I dip into research as i when i need it. I dont let it rule every decision i make regarding feeding, weaning, making up of formula etc etc

When they're coming on for advice, they're asking for advice.

I'm puzzled as to why facts and figures don't play a part in that. What's the definition of advice then?

It seems to me that some of you are demanding that Mumsnet dumbs down. "Stop quoting official advice, it will confuse me". What a patronising idea. The reason I ask Mumsnet for advice, and not some poxy hun site, is because I know I'll get informed advice. There are plenty of stupid sites out there - masses of them. Leave us just one intelligent one, will you guys?

Sorry I don't mean to imply MN is the only intelligent site on the WWW. Just one of the few.

BJB, Are you saying that if someone came along and said
'in my day we weaned at 8 weeks and
my kids are fine' that their post is better than someone who says to the same new, uninformed mother
'actually, it's recc'd that now you startweaning at 6 months due to new research that links early weaning to childhood obesity, the increase in allergies and other conditions such as IBS'???
I know which I'd prefer.

Interesting, BJB, because when it comes to my children's health and safety, I make every single decision using the available research.