To think a clearer message should of been given

[TEH82]

So DS is 10 and in year 6 at junior school, I also have a DS in year 5 at the same school who has ASD.
Thursday night DS10 went to the local park with friends and another boy produced a knife which was a proper sized kitchen knife and said he was going to stab DS friend. DS and fried made excuses about needing the toilet and ran home and told me. A few minutes later another mum messaged me as had seen the knife but the boy ran off with it so I rang the police and the head teacher as I have her mobile due to son with ASD.
The police come round and we’re at school yesterday giving talks on knifes and dangers and them and head spoke to kids.
However son is really upset this kid was still in school yesterday but want allowed out at lunch and break.
My second son was a mess hearing this happened and wanted to look at ways to stop bleeding if you were stabbed- literal child due to additional needs.
Am I harsh in thinking this kid should of least not been in school yesterday or even the rest of the term due to the upset and fear caused which hasn’t given a great message about punishment to other kids.

@Nevertime

I'm not sure it's the school's issue? The police were called and (presumably) made no arrest. It didn't happen at school, why is it up to the school to do what the police didn't?

Do you know what was the child's thinking behind the threat? Can you guarantee that it wouldn't spill into school? Can you guarantee that the child won't take a knife into school next time? Do you know the child's background and what issues they might have?

No. Neither does OP. That's why the school should've been told.

The safety of the all the other children has to come before the theoretical wellbeing of one child who may not even have a bad home life.

I wouldn't want my children mixing with a classmate who threatened to stab them. No matter how vulnerable they are. That is a much larger safeguarding issue.

If he's safer at school than home, why haven't social services removed him though?

I really don't think it's right to speculate on what the school should or shouldn't be doing. I expect they are doing their best to support all those involved.

Nobody here knows the facts. The boy with the knife could have a bad home life with bad influences. But maybe he doesn't. He might be a boy who thinks someone looking at him the wrong way deserves to be attacked. Or he may have been bullied to breaking point by his planned 'victim'. Good kids do bad things sometimes.

The school will respond in the way it thinks best, knowing those involved.

OP has done her bit by making sure the school was aware ASAP of the possibility of a knife being brought into school the following day and - if they didn't already know - that they have a deeply disturbed young boy to deal with.

You shouldn’t be calling the head’s mobile number for this as this wasn’t why they gave it to you.

Maybe the child was in school but in the integral
Isolation room, either way you did your job and called police and now you need to trust the police/school to do their job

@Medievalist

Of course op was right to ring the school!!! Do you seriously think a HT wouldn't want to know if one of their pupils had, the day before, been carrying a kitchen knife and threatening to stab someone - even if it was off the school premises?!!!!!!!!

In the op's shoes I'd be asking the HT what they were going to do to ensure my dc's safety and deal with their anxiety. I'd also be contacting the chair of governors.

And the Chair of Governors would direct you back to the HT and school. Only on mumsnet do they think Governors have such ‘power’. Governors cant act alone even the Chair and have only a set number of responsibilities which in this scenario would only be contactable if there was a complaint made about the HT’s decision making.

And the Chair of Governors would direct you back to the HT and school.

I've sat on 3 governing bodies and in a case like this the chair would contact the HT and discuss whether the school's response had been appropriate.

@Medievalist

And the Chair of Governors would direct you back to the HT and school.

I've sat on 3 governing bodies and in a case like this the chair would contact the HT and discuss whether the school's response had been appropriate.

Which would be incorrect and not in line with Governor Code of Conduct unless there was a formal complaint then the Chair would be correct to become involved but I dont want to take over the thread with discussions around the process of Governance.

@HTPri

Which would be incorrect and not in line with Governor Code of Conduct unless there was a formal complaint then the Chair would be correct to become involved but I dont want to take over the thread with discussions around the process of Governance.

That's interesting. Could you pm me a link to where the Code says Chairs shouldn't discuss with the HT concerns raised with them by parents?

Its within the scope of the complaints procedure - see the DFE website and in line with Governors code of conduct as established by the NGA. Parents shouldnt be raising concerns informally to the Governors. These should only be via the official channel of the complaints procedure. As I stated if it is a formal complaint about the HT then the Chair of Governors should follow the process.

@HTpri - can you be more precise? I can't see anything in the NGA code of Conduct that prevents governors raising concerns with a HT that parents have raised with them.

Code of conduct states:
‘ We accept that our role is strategic and so will focus on our core functions rather than involve ourselves in day-to-day management.’

There are then 3 core functions of a GB:
*Ensuring clarity of vision, ethos and strategic direction
*Holding executive leaders to account for the educational performance of the organisation and its pupils, and the effective and efficient performance management of staff
*Overseeing financial performance of the organisation and making sure its money is well spent.

Therefore from this you can see responding to concerns parents raise is not within the scope of their role unless it is as outlined in the complaints procedure. What you mention doesnt fall within one of those 3 functions. Performance is around pupil data and outcomes, which governors scrutinise and checking staff performance management processes are in place; that there is a clear vision and that financial procedures are scrutinised.

Governors shouldn’t be involving themselves in the day to day running or decision making of the school. This is for the SLT.

And ensuring accountability includes engaging with stakeholders.

Engaging with stake holders in line with due process which would be formally as a GB not informally.

As a union rep I would have no hesitation in supporting a HT to challenge their GB who acted in the way you are suggesting.

Having worked in education for 30 plus years and operated as a HT of multiple schools I do actually know what i’m talking about more so than someone who has ‘sat on 3 GBs’

Okay @HTPri - I'll bow to your superior knowledge.

I think HTs can exclude for things that happen outside school. I’ve been aware of that in my child’s own school not knives but similar.

I see the OPs pov - why should the parent be bothered if another child had a safeguarding situation. They should only be bothered about their own child and the impact that this situation could have on them.

@RoastedParnsip

If he's safer at school than home, why haven't social services removed him though?

Because it's not that easy. SS don't remove children whenever they feel like it. They need a court order unless there is imminent harm.

A potential concern about one child’s home life surely can’t over ride the feelings and wellbeing of all the other children involved and showing them the seriousness of this and the role of the police in protecting everyone. The police have been amazing - straight round every house of children involved and at the school most of the day so I am not bashing them at all but feel more of an example should be made

@TEH82

A potential concern about one child’s home life surely can’t over ride the feelings and wellbeing of all the other children involved and showing them the seriousness of this and the role of the police in protecting everyone. The police have been amazing - straight round every house of children involved and at the school most of the day so I am not bashing them at all but feel more of an example should be made

Agreed

@TEH82

A potential concern about one child’s home life surely can’t over ride the feelings and wellbeing of all the other children involved and showing them the seriousness of this and the role of the police in protecting everyone. The police have been amazing - straight round every house of children involved and at the school most of the day so I am not bashing them at all but feel more of an example should be made

How? What exactly would you like done? An action that would be enough for you but not discriminatory, illegal or unreasonably punitive.

You don't know what is happening behind the scenes, both in terms of intervention (including the school taking further action) and why this happened.

Does this kid have form for this? A pattern of aggressive/violent behaviour?

No I have never heard this kids name before and my DS states he has always gone to this school so infants and juniors

I have a literal child OP and I genuinely think that it might help to take them through the SEEP basics to give them a sense of control. (sit, examine, elevate, pressure). With any puncture wound - if knife left in - leave it there, never pull it out.
firstaidforlife.org.uk/knife-crime-serious-bleeding/
You should not have to do this but many literal kids make excellent first-aiders and he at least reassured by having the info. Do discuss it with him if he has already been googling.

I don’t think that’s really what you have the head teachers number for.

Bizarre that she has it anyway but I’ll bet the head is regretting the decision now.

No. Before school started the HT needed to be on the ball and alert to the fact that a child could be entering the school with a knife and thoughts of harming someone.

School offices are open before school starts.

A message delivered via the school office would not necessarily have reached the HT quickly. And who knows when the police may have got round to notifying the school.

Sure. A message to the office of “kid threatened to stab another kid last night” is going to sit in the inbox whist the receptionist deals with calls about how little Jinny has the sniffles and won’t be in today. 🙄

I’m genuinely gobsmacked that when your kid is almost stabbed (or his friend is) that you’re supposed to care at all about the home life of the attempted murderer? Or that you should care that being in school the next day might be more “appropriate” for him? Or that anyone thinks the kid with the fucking knife needs to be told that knives are “dangerous?!” Do those absolute cretins not think that might be WHY he had it?

If they can’t even take this seriously, they’re an utter joke. I’d be going HT governors MPs etc. What point is “safeguarding” if getting stabbed isn’t even considered a danger??