AIBU to think Police should investigate Child Abuse rather than Social Worker.

[Lockdownbear]

Far to many child abuse cases seem to slip through the net. Child abuse and neglect are both criminal offences, why are they checked out by SW rather than police ?
Surely the police are the experts in criminal enquiries, let them check cases out then the SW get involved later if necessary.

Any child abuse case will have involvement from both police and children's services. They work alongside each other but have totally different roles.

The police utterly messed up a case of someone close to me who did all of the ‘right’ things.

The family courts nearly broke her and her child (the victim) and it was only thanks to the social worker’s recommendations contact was ultimately denied.

The police utterly screwed up the criminal investigation and the incompetence was a disgrace.

Services need people who care, better resources, better training and tenacity. A more investigative approach.

My MIL was a child protection social worker and always felt the threshold for intervention was too low and that too many children were left in unsafe homes even 15-20 years ago.

Child abuse requires specialist knowledge that regular police simply do not have. If you eliminate all social services and make police 100% responsible, things will get worse not better.

They might work together once SW have done the initial assessment. But when people make the call "i think a child is being abused" xyz is happening its SW who go to check it out, if they think its fine it goes no further.

Surely it should be the police who check it out and question parents, get the witness statements, see if they can gather any evidence, then involve SW if they think there is something in the alligation. Police are probably less likely to be intimidated by an abuser and they have access to police records to see if there is anything the parents / potential abuser has done before.

I just think SW get the blame and calls for more training when really criminal investigation isn't their area of expertise.

They work together, most cases where SS know or suspect neglect are subject to multi disciplinary meetings that bring together professionals from social care, health, education and the police.

Police do not have the expertise or capacity or funding and nor would it be appropriate for them to do it in isolation.

Social care needs better funding and parents need to stop being given any fucking benefit of the doubt. Social care has a real fixation with considering the harm of separating a child from their family but i'd rather err on the side of caution than risk another innocent vulnerable child's life.

The bar is really quite low for meeting a child's needs and there are so many children living in poverty in the UK that social care can't possibly ensure a happy, safe life for all of them when they don't have proper resources.

If the police alone had to investigate every report of potential child abuse, they'd likely not have much time for anything else. It's literally the main part of a social workers job to identify child abuse and neglect, so assuming they may be more intimidated by an abuser than police is quite patronising. They also work closely with police so I'd imagine can request backgrounds checks on individuals quickly and easily.

The threshold for criminal charges for child abuse is high. The threshold for children to be removed from abusive homes is lower (although often still too high). Many, many abused children are in care and do not have contact with their parents as it is not safe. The parents may never face charges, as the police are unable to put a strong enough case together; not through want of trying, but the threshold of evidence is quite often insufficient to make a criminal charge.

The public only ever hear about cases where parents have faced criminal charges; children who are removed from their families are not often heard about due to confidentiality.

Surely it should be the police who check it out and question parents, get the witness statements, see if they can gather any evidence, then involve SW if they think there is something in the alligation. Police are probably less likely to be intimidated by an abuser and they have access to police records to see if there is anything the parents / potential abuser has done before.

Most abusers are very good liars and can be charming. How do you think Tustin got away with it every time the police visited? She was female, young, pretty and could turn on the charm. Abusers can spin tales for “witness statements” like you could not believe. A SW is better at spotting an abuser because they have been trained in psychology and how to spot red flags, body language and so on. Police are trained in criminal investigation but without the narrow focus on child abuse. And police are known to be unconsciously biased towards thinking young, pretty women are not abusers.

It should be an experienced social worker who has extra training in child protection (rather than generic child welfare) who investigates any child protection concerns. Decisions are made by two out of the three agencies involved (health, social work and police) to progress to a full case conference. In this case where a picture of a bruise has been shown, there should have been a child protection medical. Child protection is very much multi agency - in this case who was sent out to do the visit, was Arthur given a chance to share any concerns, were school spoken to, did they access health records, local authority records, info from police about the adults in the household? These are the basic requirements that a social worker would gather and then write up a detailed analytical report that is then shared with their line manager. Definitely has to be a trained social worker who does this but it has to be done by those with enough knowledge and experience and to the letter.

I would think that the police would be involved if many abuse cases where physical assault takes place.
Maybe not a depressed DM neglect case.
Likewise the police probably refer the families, those and Teachers.

Sorry but you sound woefully uneducated around the roles of social workers and police officers. Child abuse is a specialist area that police officers don't have the knowledge, or the resources to deal with. Extend the power of social workers for sure, but don't take them away.

Maybe it needs a new kind of force that doesn’t exist yet. I agree, too many child abuse cases slip through the net, but it seems either existing force can be alarmingly impotent at stepping in.

No police already work jointly with SW. what they need to do is fund social work so people are not over worked and thresholds are high, and social workers don’t have case loads to heavy to handle.

My mate is a social worker and during the 1st lockdown, parents wouldn’t let her in, even though she had PPE on, using covid as an excuse not to let her in to see the child. She had to start asking parents to put the child in the hallway so she could see them through the letterbox.
Her bosses and the police were powerless to force these parents to let social workers through the door because of covid.
When she eventually saw one of the children months later, he was painfully thin and living in a filthy house stinking of weed. Still nobody does anything, he’s still there, living with his junkie mother who has different men round all the time.
My friend said funding is cut every year and the social works have much longer lists and less time to spend visiting each child.
It seems the government cut funding year on year as the kids in need are from poorer families and they likely think these kids won’t contribute in future so let them suffer. So sad.

@MissCruellaDeVil

Sorry but you sound woefully uneducated around the roles of social workers and police officers. Child abuse is a specialist area that police officers don't have the knowledge, or the resources to deal with. Extend the power of social workers for sure, but don't take them away.

^this

I work with the police and SW, and there's no fucking way I'd trust your average cop with a child protection issue over a SW

It seems to me that we need a change in the law that in the case of suspected abuse that a social worker should have right of entry.

Both police and social workers have failed to protect children

Police and social workers work together, they also need specially trained pediatricians.

As a child protection social worker I did joint interview training with the police.

I do think there is some merit to a joint child protection force which focuses on s47 investigations only.
But social workers have skills police don't and vice versa.

I am a senior CP social worker with nearly 20 years experience. Most of our referrals come from the police via daily multi-agency meetings where they have been called out to an incident where children are present, or often not but the victim or perpetrator has a child/is a step parent.

All section 47 cases require a strategy discussion with police and other agencies very quickly. The usual scenario is that the police say the social worker visits and feeds back. Quite often this visit is to a household the police have markers on and would not attend without back-up. I just have to head down their with a colleague and use our 'people skills and restorative practice' and get onto the house. Luckily we usually manage to get in and get agreement to see children alone, however I have been physically assaulted a few times and have ongoing whiplash issues as a result of one incident.

The threshold in family law is totally different to criminal law, we ask for a finding of fact, based on the balance of probability. During my most recent proceedings needing a judgement, the police witnesses were the worst expert witnesses I have ever come accross. When they were called (including those from the safeguarding unit who were all over it for the first 7 days), all just could not remember anything 5 months on and they had not kept records. I know how bloody over worked they are but so was I at the time getting this case straight to court and assessing family carers whilst getting to know and reassure 3 very young children. When this happens every other case on your case load is lucky to get a look in, and that is working unlimited hours + unpaid overtime.

I had a case back in 2015 which was induced illness in a baby. Very clear findings made by the judge and all 4 children living happily with a family member, including a little girl with life lasting disability. The CPS have yet to bring about criminal prosecution, they still contact me for information so it has not been dropped.

OK I'll accept I'm wrong.

But what needs to change to stop the next 'Arthur' falling through the net.

Reports were made by 4 different people, Gran, Uncle, School, Step mothers step dad, SW checked on him but couldn't see the issue?

We will find out in time what could have been done to save Arthur. I suspect there were several elements likely including inexperienced, burnt out or just not very good social workers, excessive caseloads, absent management, poor inter professional communication etc.
But, the system generally works. This is what people can't understand or accept. The system works to prevent children being harmed and killed on a daily basis. The system is flawed and at risk of pressure from systemic issues and also individual weak points of course but most of the time it works.
The main issues affecting social work practice have been discussed to death on here. I'll just say in answer to your OP we do work together and any criminal investigation is obviously carried out by police but social workers have no control over what police will investigate or whether people are actually charged.

@Lockdownbear

OK I'll accept I'm wrong.

But what needs to change to stop the next 'Arthur' falling through the net.

Reports were made by 4 different people, Gran, Uncle, School, Step mothers step dad, SW checked on him but couldn't see the issue?

We need powers of entry & assaulting a social worker (physically or verbally) should be treated in the same way as assaulting a police officer. CP work should also require extra, specialist training & attract a much higher wage that reflects the extra time, trauma & statutory responsibility required than 'less demanding' SW roles. Failing that, paid overtime would make a huge difference.

I think unfortunately it comes down to numbers involved, my daughter is a Police Officer and I asked her a few weeks ago because of Arthur's case if they get many abuse reports- she said so many. Social workers need enough time to evaluate clearly and with the right legal back.

Maybe what social worker unions need to do is agree a safe caseload (I don’t know - 10/15 families per worker?) and just refuse to take on more than that.
So if Birmingham Social Services have 30 social workers, they accept 300 families at a time and turn down any more referrals regardless.
I’m the short term more children will be abused and die but in the long term it might produce the change people want.