AIBU to think Police should investigate Child Abuse rather than Social Worker.

[Lockdownbear]

Far to many child abuse cases seem to slip through the net. Child abuse and neglect are both criminal offences, why are they checked out by SW rather than police ?
Surely the police are the experts in criminal enquiries, let them check cases out then the SW get involved later if necessary.

Social work is now so poorly funded it's unsafe.

The system works well to protect most children. Nothing will ever be full proof. As previously stated abusers can be very charming and deceptive. They might do or say just enough to get sw to back off and then things escalate again pretty quickly. They can also refuse to engage which can make assessing the risk very difficult. Social workers don't have legal powers as others have already explained so that is also a barrier, they can't force entry. It's one of those things where one death is one too many but all the success stories can never be shared or celebrated.

This thread is extremely worrying. It’s great that this weekend’s football games etc are raising public awareness but if the safety net isn’t there when child abuse is reported because they don’t have enough money to run it properly, then what happens?

What can the public do to help? Write to our MPs demanding more funding, the NSPCC, who? Who are the social services unions? Are there charities already campaigning on this? The media says today (see front page daily Mail) Boris Johnson is ordering an investigation into what was done and wasn't done to learn lessons. Obviously it’s good to look closely at what happened, and specifically the contribution of lockdown. But it seems pointless blaming social workers or police, if the reality is that any professional with a part to play will inevitably fail at some point in their overburdened child protection duties, because the system is so short of money.

Here’s the front page link
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10271303/Arthurs-monster-stepmother-REFUSES-face-justice.html

I mean, there is a scary amount of crimes that are never even investigated, and conviction rates are very low for others- mainly sexual/physical abuse related and rape. Honestly why do you think rather than having professionals who collaborate with other agencies as needed but have a particular set of skills and knowledge are not as good as the police? Yes sadly there are cases that slip through and errors made as ultimately they are still human, but thousands upon thousands of children are also 'saved' by social workers. The real issue is lack of social workers, clunky working between agencies at times due to systems and shortages across the board, and rules and laws that often cause issues.

Thankyou for this thread.

I want to know what social workers need.

I get the obvious ones - funding, lower caseload ( so more social workers rather than turning referrals down).

What else?

• higher legal powers to compel entry and protections against assault?

• does the mantra need to move from 'avoid care at all costs' to make care more palatable as a genuine viable alternative ?

I'm sorry for my naivety I am genuinely asking and genuinely care

It's one of those things where one death is one too many but all the success stories can never be shared or celebrated

Yep, pretty much like the intelligence agencies. One attack is too many, but similarly many are stopped we just rarely hear about them. They also don't have the manpower to investigate everyone, so when it's said someone was known to them, it doesn't mean that they have the manpower to put everyone under surveillance. Basically public services are underfunded and underresourced.

We need to reduce the load on social workers by ensuring low level stuff never progresses to need serious intervention - Sure Start funding, good, cheap early years funding, better funding for schools. More scaffolding to help families away from chaotic lives.

I'm from NI, Social Workers here work very closely with the Police. Any referral of a concern of abuse is jointly investigated by the PSNI and Social Services on the same day. This could be physical, sexual, neglect, unexplained bruising, severe emotional. It works well and response is always immediate, children are spoken to in school within the hour usually and safeguarding completed. I'm not sure what the process in England is.

@DazzlePaintedBattlePants

We need to reduce the load on social workers by ensuring low level stuff never progresses to need serious intervention - Sure Start funding, good, cheap early years funding, better funding for schools. More scaffolding to help families away from chaotic lives.

Better funding for the NHS More funding for maternity services and maternal mental health Mother & baby units Funding for DV support More DV refuges Drug & alcohol treatment Social housing Funding for special schools, respite

They do, if child abuse is reported any organisation has to inform the police and Ss.

Intrigued If the NI situation is better than here in actual funding terms and outcome terms - it sounds good

Given how "good" (as in, biased and too often poorly trained) police are with rape cases and domestic abuse cases, not convinced they'd be particularly competent at dealing with child abuse cases...

The police were called in the case of Arthur. His uncle phoned them several times and they visited once iirc, and told the uncle nothing was wrong. They also told him if he visited Arthur in his home again they would arrest him for breaking lockdown rules.

I trust the police to investigate even less than I trust SWs. And I don't trust them much.

@RoyalMush"This thread is extremely worrying. It’s great that this weekend’s football games etc are raising public awareness but if the safety net isn’t there when child abuse is reported because they don’t have enough money to run it properly, then what happens?

What can the public do to help? Write to our MPs demanding more funding, the NSPCC, who? Who are the social services unions? Are there charities already campaigning on this? The media says today (see front page daily Mail) Boris Johnson is ordering an investigation into what was done and wasn't done to learn lessons. Obviously it’s good to look closely at what happened, and specifically the contribution of lockdown. But it seems pointless blaming social workers or police, if the reality is that any professional with a part to play will inevitably fail at some point in their overburdened child protection duties, because the system is so short of money."
@NellieBertram @DazzlePaintedBattlePants
"DazzlePaintedBattlePants

We need to reduce the load on social workers by ensuring low level stuff never progresses to need serious intervention - Sure Start funding, good, cheap early years funding, better funding for schools. More scaffolding to help families away from chaotic lives."

"Better funding for the NHS
More funding for maternity services and maternal mental health
Mother & baby units
Funding for DV support
More DV refuges
Drug & alcohol treatment
Social housing
Funding for special schools, respite"

Completely agree with all above. Ss are overwhelmed. The police are overwhelmed.

It starts with prevention, with funding a society with support before things get difficult, multiple safety nets and the properly funded services so when problems occur they identify and act.

Poor little Arthur is a horrific example of when it goes wrong and the multiple missed opportunties. I'm glad people are shocked and hope they demand better of the government's they vote in who cut funding year on year, for public services and support services like sure start.

Only a tiny fraction of abuse cases are reported so. We need to people to demand better from our government!! It breaks my heart when the Tories are voted in time after time with what they have done to public services.

I think you have a good point there .I think many SW are overworked, and many parents can do a good job of covering up abuse .The pandemic worked against this poor child ,and all red flags that would be waving normally (Bruising ,hunger and so on) that may have been picked up by Teachers and so on were missed .For so many years we have had promises of this never happening again .Maria Caldwell in the 70s ,Victoria Climbie ,Baby P .The list goes on . SW and police are only part of this ,sharp eared neighbours who hear frequent sounds of children crying , Teachers/Nursery workers and so on all need to play their part

One of the other issues regarding removing children is where to put them. Every time there's a case like this the public are outraged yet I still don't see people deciding to train as foster carers. One of the reasons children are often left at home 'with support' is because there aren't any alternatives. Try finding a place for a child you've removed on a Friday afternoon, you'll still be in the office at 7 at night desperately persuading family members that are barely suitable, or trying to place kids miles and miles from home away from their f fiends/school as that's the only bed you can find

Lock down bear I also agree to a point, yes police will lack x and y but they will have hopefully the investigation skills and questions that sw don't have so perhaps they wouldn't have been so easily fobbed off by tustin and Hughes Web of lies?

I would like to see them dealt with by the police.

The problem with many of these replies is its telling us what should happen and yet we know this didn't happen when sw visited the house and they didn't investigate properly.

HPMagic the NI approach sounds like the right way to investigate child abuse.

All out of care units I totally agree.

We need to make tough decisions as a country.

We don't have seem to be able to keep dc in care safe. The last time I heard that awful government used company were now in charge of care homes?
There are too many children and not enough care, not good enough care for them to go somewhere anyway.

Education needs to come into schools quite early on how to treat babies, toddlers, arm children themselves with knowledge, drum the rights of the child into them, explain positive parenting.

So when they go into have dc hopefully even a teeny bit over all care will improve.
I don't think the general public understands just how many people have dc and do nothing for them at all.

What I'm finding increasingly common is people have dc, then loose total interest in them when they meet new partners and have more dc and that new partners dc also fall by the wayside.

These dc then get left with gp.. Or put into Foster care.

Its not just Police and Social Workers who get involved in these cases. Information is also taken from schools, doctors and many other agencies.

It's also very probable initial visits are done by two workers not just one. Its not as easy to spot as everyone thinks either. I worked in child protection for years and I'd say 40 percent of kids disclosed abuse after being removed. You cannot remove every child of concern. ALL parents who are abusive lie and manipulate, they are excellent at it.

Police often did attend visits because children cannot be removed by Social Workers alone, it's the police who must enforce the emergency removal of a child they therefore have to be present. Both services are horrendously underfunded and literally struggling to manage the cases where it is obvious the children are being abused let alone those where it's hidden.

Also just consider you enter a clean well kept house to see a child. You're told the child is unwell or out of sorts but the child being abused has been threatened if they make anyone suspect anything then they're in for it. During that visit the child gets hugs, kisses and attention which they're desperate for and love it. The food cupboards are full, the child's bedroom is well kept and the child is interacting well with the parent. You see bruises, the parent and child tell you it's from playing, they're always involved in ruff and tumble at school, the child agrees with the parent. You recommend the parent takes the child to the GP, they agree but didn't want to bother anyone as everyone is so busy.

What would you do?! You cannot remove a child because you think something is happening, you can only remove them when you know they are at serious risk of harm.

It is not the police or social workers fault if a parent kills their child!

YABVU for a number of reasons.

The police should be enforcing the law by preventing and dealing with crime, and given that they struggle to achieve that when there's definite evidence of a crime having occurred, expecting them to manage possible child abuse is doomed to failure, they deal with black and white, the letter of the law.

Social services have to deal with risk, a chasm of shades of grey which, frankly I think the police would be terrible at, and don't have the training for.