Page 4 | Selling your home to pay for your care in your old age

Bagamoyo1 · 04/12/2021 15:53

People make choices in life - you either save or spend - it’s your choice. You know the score, so you make a decision.

MrsLarry · 04/12/2021 15:56

@Comedycook

Cannot bear the "I've worked hard all my life and paid my taxes" brigade. You worked because you needed money...it's not a huge moral sacrifice. You paid taxes because it's illegal not to and in most cases, it's deducted before we even get our wages. That's life...

I'm out.

There's just no dealing with the stupid people...

User2638483 · 04/12/2021 15:57

The biggest thing that would make a difference is they could find a cure/better treatment for dementia.
If you don’t have a cognitive impairment you’re far more likely to be able to stay in your own home and be safe in between carer visits. If you have dementia then at some point that often becomes untenable because of wandering, mobilising alone when it’s not safe to do so, and other risky behaviour.

If dementia didn’t exist or was less prevalent, less people would need less care home places and for generally much shorter times.

waitingpatientlyforspring · 04/12/2021 15:57

@ItsDinah

The problem is that if you don't own your own home or other assets, your care will be paid for by the government. If someone is very wealthy this won't bother them. If someone has scrimped and worked hard to acquire savings/house, they will feel hard done by if they have to pay while someone who had similar earnings but did not save does not. This is particularly so as in many parts of the UK, private payers have to pay as much as double what the local authority pays for exactly the same care and accommodation in the same care home. They are in effect subsidising the publicly funded.

This is what many peoples complaints are about.

Owning a house is not unearned income. We pay thousands above loan cost in interest by the time you pay your mortgage off. We work hard to EARN that money to pay our mortgages. So calling a house unearned income is grossly unfair.

Thursdaymiami · 04/12/2021 15:57

The NHS do pay for care if its a clinical need. I thought everyone knew that. It’s called the NHS continuing care fund and it has nothing to do with social care.
If you need social care then yes of course you should pay it yourself.

The problem is, the government have decided that many ailments don’t come under clinical care, what can you do about it? I guess take the NHS to court, that’s how the continuing care fund came about, from legal action

Starcup · 04/12/2021 15:59

@Comedycook

most people would like to leave money for their children if possible

Of course but we could apply this attitude to anything. Should the elderly be entitled to free food and utilities so that they don't spend their own money and can leave it to their kids?

Of course not, but if there is no incentive to save, then people will find ways to spend their money or ‘gift it’, so they’ll probably need financial assistance from the government anyway.

I don’t think people shouldn’t pay for their care, but it is frustrating to think that those that make life choices to not work (much) get everything paid and those that try to make provisions and save are told to sell up.

JassyRadlett · 04/12/2021 16:00

Old people will just splurge their savings on cruises etc too make the most of their savings as there is little incentive to save to pass on to future generations.

Is this really true, though?

First, the incentive is still there. According to Dilnot (2010, so allow for inflation ), 50% of people will spend up to £20k, 10% will spend over £100k. So there’s still a good chance of handing on your wealth.

Second, you’re ignoring another incentive - that of choice. I know that for people of my parents’ generation, being able to pay for and choose a nice care home if they needed, rather than whatever they are allocated by the state, is a strong motivation for protecting some of their assets.

At any rate, it doesn’t sit right with me that I should be able to protect my (partly unearned) asset values at the cost of a younger taxpayer who didn’t have the benefit of being able to get into the housing market when it was easier, or benefiting hugely from house price rises.

Sweetpeasaremadeforbees · 04/12/2021 16:00

People make choices in life - you either save or spend - it’s your choice. You know the score, so you make a decision.

The thing is I don't think people do know the score. A lot of people assume that with no money, councils will just pick up the bill and I don't think that is true. Councils will fund the bare minimum to keep you safe. Your quality of life is irrelevant to them. We all hear about the council funded carers who spend literally 15 mins getting someone out of bed but have no time to stop and chat. Paying for that yourself gets you someone who will stay for as long as you pay them for.

cptartapp · 04/12/2021 16:01

If someone has MS and can't manage at home, or a massive heart attack and needs a care home, or Parkinson's, or osteoporosis of course they will pay. It's not just those with dementia who do.
Imagine allowing your adult child in the prime of their life to actually give up work to become your carer indefinitely. No days out or holidays. The physical and mental drain. You becoming their priority. I would never ever let my Dc do that. Dreadful.

Flipflopblowout · 04/12/2021 16:02

When the NHS was set up it was advertised as care from the cradle to the grave. All very ambitious and forward looking after the misery of WW2. However, I do not believe that they could envisage a time when specialist treatments would cost over a million pounds and a course of specialist injections costing over £10,000.00 for each injection. In 1947 many of the operations that are now common place were not even thought viable. The NHS has turned into a dark money pit and recent events have highlighted that the system repeatedly needs to be shored up. I hope that I can leave something for my children and my grand children but dementia appears to be a misery lottery with no winners just all losers in one way or another.

LittlePearl · 04/12/2021 16:02

I believe people with the means to do so should pay for their care, but there are several injustices in the system.

Some care residents are paying inflated rates that effectively cover those that are state funded.

And dementia is a disease. As is Parkinson's, and many other illnesses that do not qualify for NHS funding.

I understand why some people feel aggrieved and think there are ways to make the system more equitable.

rwalker · 04/12/2021 16:02

My mum and dads have friends he's been a self employed builder all his working life put the bare minimum through his books and she's was a mobile hairdresser again not paying tax.
They earned more than my mum and dad spent every penny they got done various equity realise on there house . Holidays cars caravans cruises and now have nothing . The state pick up the bill
My mum and dad worked hard paid every tax going no lavish life style or holidays ploughed everything into there home the state would not pick up the bill even though they have contribute more but because they haven't pissed there money up against the wall they get no help .

So basically contribute fuck all and piss your money away state pay
Be sensible contribute loads and in return state give you fuck all

Starcup · 04/12/2021 16:03

@zafferana

1) Because many people scrimp and save to buy a house, going without many things in life to afford one. But someone who didn't do that, who spent their money on other things, get social care on the government with no financial penalty.

Because if that person was ill with a terminal illness, they wouldn't have to pay for their care - it would via the NHS, which is taxpayer funded. So many say why should social care and the kind of care that people need when they've got a condition like dementia be self-funded when treatment and care for those with cancer, heart disease, etc is funded by the government?

What it means is that you're penalised if you're financially prudent and unlucky enough to need social care in your old age.

Because many people scrimp and save to buy a house, going without many things in life to afford one. But someone who didn't do that, who spent their money on other things, get social care on the government with no financial penalty

This is the clanger for a lot of people. I don’t think that they mind paying for themselves as such if that means selling their house even, but it’s knowing other people will get everything for nothing without sacraficec

JassyRadlett · 04/12/2021 16:03

Owning a house is not unearned income. We pay thousands above loan cost in interest by the time you pay your mortgage off. We work hard to EARN that money to pay our mortgages. So calling a house unearned income is grossly unfair.

Unless you live in a very unusual part of the country, alongside what you’ve earned to pay off your mortgage (not unearned wealth) is the increase in value due to house price inflation which has run way ahead of wage growth for years now.

My house is worth more than 50% more now than when we bought it. I didn’t earn that 50%, I was lucky. A bit canny in where we chose to buy, but also very lucky based on the performance of the economy and when we were able to buy.

Thursdaymiami · 04/12/2021 16:03

Problem seems to be most people think that social care is medical care. It’s not.

Livelovebehappy · 04/12/2021 16:05

Private care homes charge ridiculous amounts of money to the paying elderly. My mil is paying £3000 per month, and spends most of the time sitting in a community room chatting and playing a few games now and again, eating not very much. That’s what needs to be looked at. Where does this £3k go?

Thursdaymiami · 04/12/2021 16:05

I hate this country sometimes. We are so awful to each other.
What should some feckless cunt get someone helping them wipe their arse when they’re old. THEY DONT DESERVE IT
I made thousands on a house going up in value, therefore I am superior to these lazy fucking arseholes.
Bring back the workhouses seems to be the gist of a lot of people.
Lazy people shouldn’t have dignity in old age.
Just wow

icedcoffees · 04/12/2021 16:06

@Thursdaymiami

Problem seems to be most people think that social care is medical care. It’s not.

Or, the problem is how are you defining medical care and social care.

If someone has dementia, it's a medical condition that should require medical care, and that care often has to be 24/7 in order to keep the person safe (to stop them wandering or leaving the oven on etc.) So, my argument would be that that should be state funded as it's a direct result of a diagnosed condition.

But lots of people struggle with their memories and with basic tasks as they age anyway, even if they don't have dementia. At what point does it cross the line from social care (help with basic tasks) to a medical need (where it would be dangerous to leave that person without help)?

nordica · 04/12/2021 16:08

It's also further complicated because the cost of living, especially housing, is now so vastly disproportionate in relation to wages than it was even just 20 years ago. I also don't agree with the idea that no one is entitled to an inheritance - I think everyone is entitled to decide what happens to their money, and if they want their children to have it then they should be able to leave it to them and not be forced to use it all on care costs. In the example in your OP, it doesn't sound at all unreasonable the mum would rather the daughter has a secure home than the money going on care costs - especially when others without the assets to sell will get their care paid for instead.

Starcup · 04/12/2021 16:09

@rwalker

My mum and dads have friends he's been a self employed builder all his working life put the bare minimum through his books and she's was a mobile hairdresser again not paying tax. They earned more than my mum and dad spent every penny they got done various equity realise on there house . Holidays cars caravans cruises and now have nothing . The state pick up the bill My mum and dad worked hard paid every tax going no lavish life style or holidays ploughed everything into there home the state would not pick up the bill even though they have contribute more but because they haven't pissed there money up against the wall they get no help .

So basically contribute fuck all and piss your money away state pay
Be sensible contribute loads and in return state give you fuck all

I agree with this. It happens more than people know because let’s be honest, people aren’t going to shout about this stuff

Cucumberpitta · 04/12/2021 16:09

@BlueCarnation

Please explain why this is such an issue? I’m not from the UK but have worked and lived here for about 10 years. The amount of financial help the government provides is incredible and I’m still amazed by it after being here for so long. NHS, schools, SMP, different types of benefits, child credits etc. My country provides absolute no help like that for it’s residents.

One thing I can’t get my head around is the outrage people feel regarding paying for your own care when you’re older. A few weeks ago there was a news special where people were upset that their parents had to sell their homes to go into care. Surely that’s the point of years of hard work - so that when the time comes you have sufficient money? If I recall correctly, a woman said she would no longer be able to live in her mums house and would be homeless. Her mum was already in a care home but needed extra specialised care ( I think she had dementia) which government support was not enough for. The daughter said the house would need to be sold and her mum would have been devastated if she knew her home was being used to pay for her care. Why is that wrong or unfair?

Can you explain if you cannot live safely in your house anymore why shouldn’t the proceeds from your house sale be used to care for you until death? Why are adult children so up in arms at the thought of that? I don’t understand.

I don't think it's fair that if you don't have savings or a house you get tax funded care, and if you do you pay for yourself. What's the point in saving or buying a home.

Cameleongirl · 04/12/2021 16:10

@SnackSizeRaisin

I would introduce 100% inheritance tax. (Perhaps excluding the first 10k or so). Would level the playing field for all and solve these kind of problems.

The issue I can see with 100% inheritance tax is that there’s be no incentive to work hard and save if your assets are going to the state, instead of people you love. I have a relative in her 80’s who’s worked incredibly hard and I believe she’s accumulated substantial assets. I know she wants to leave it to my cousins and I don’t really know why she shouldn’t, tbh. She and her husband ran their own business and sold it at a profit, they really grafted to build it up. She doesn’t currently need care and I’m sure she’ll pay for it if she needs it.

SylviaTrench · 04/12/2021 16:12

It's a dementia tax

Just try getting NHS CHC for someone with dementia.

Recently a retired Rear Admiral tried taking NHS England to court, over what he considered to be unfair practices regarding CCGs and their assessments for NHS CHC.
In his words it was easier writing nuclear deterrent policy than it was to try and figure out the CHC system.

FitAt50 · 04/12/2021 16:13

I think it because many people won't have to pay for their care. Its the perceived unfairness of making people who have paid a mortgage year after year, having to sell their house to pay for care. Then you have people who have spent their money on other things, who then all get their care for free as have no home to sell.

Starcup · 04/12/2021 16:14

@Thursdaymiami

I hate this country sometimes. We are so awful to each other. What should some feckless cunt get someone helping them wipe their arse when they’re old. THEY DONT DESERVE IT I made thousands on a house going up in value, therefore I am superior to these lazy fucking arseholes. Bring back the workhouses seems to be the gist of a lot of people. Lazy people shouldn’t have dignity in old age. Just wow

sell your house then and put it towards care costs for those lazy folk you feel so sorry for…