Selling your home to pay for your care in your old age

[BlueCarnation]

Please explain why this is such an issue? I’m not from the UK but have worked and lived here for about 10 years. The amount of financial help the government provides is incredible and I’m still amazed by it after being here for so long. NHS, schools, SMP, different types of benefits, child credits etc. My country provides absolute no help like that for it’s residents.

One thing I can’t get my head around is the outrage people feel regarding paying for your own care when you’re older. A few weeks ago there was a news special where people were upset that their parents had to sell their homes to go into care. Surely that’s the point of years of hard work - so that when the time comes you have sufficient money? If I recall correctly, a woman said she would no longer be able to live in her mums house and would be homeless. Her mum was already in a care home but needed extra specialised care ( I think she had dementia) which government support was not enough for. The daughter said the house would need to be sold and her mum would have been devastated if she knew her home was being used to pay for her care. Why is that wrong or unfair?

Can you explain if you cannot live safely in your house anymore why shouldn’t the proceeds from your house sale be used to care for you until death? Why are adult children so up in arms at the thought of that? I don’t understand.

Those people who own reduce the burden on the state but they seem to get little financial advantage for doing so. Yes a house can increase in value but that only releases cold hard cash if you buy somewhere cheaper

So then maybe we should start making sure people who work ft are paid enough to enable them to buy? So they can save a deposit and also get a mortgage? No matter what job they're in, even the ones that people don't think deserve a decent wage because it's a 'vocation'? Ensure that they're paid enough to live without state support while they're working too, and that absent parents pay up for their children so that there doesn't need to be state support there too. Ensure that 0 hours contracts aren't the go to for any employers as well. Give people the means to be able to do this while still ensuring that jobs that society relies on get done.

Could I invoice my elderly parent for the care I give & collect the money from the estate after they die
Well if you're providing the care, there won't be a care bill to pay will there? So you stand to inherit when they die.

General feeling I'm getting from this thread that the low income members of society should be socially responsible for the good of society, and should just pretty much disappear when they are no longer of use, because they're just a drain then. But if you've done a bit better then you're entitled to have your living costs and care costs paid for and also pass your inheritance on to family, no social responsibility expected there.

@Blossomtoes

Those people who own reduce the burden on the state

Do they? What’s the rationale for that?

Hypothetical scenario, If I were to own my own home I would not relying on social housing subsidised by housing benifit

I dont think its unreasonable to sell the home to fund care.
I do think it is not right to sell the home, live in the same care home as people being funded by the council and pay more for care than the council does.

@Maverickess

Those people who own reduce the burden on the state but they seem to get little financial advantage for doing so. Yes a house can increase in value but that only releases cold hard cash if you buy somewhere cheaper

So then maybe we should start making sure people who work ft are paid enough to enable them to buy? So they can save a deposit and also get a mortgage? No matter what job they're in, even the ones that people don't think deserve a decent wage because it's a 'vocation'? Ensure that they're paid enough to live without state support while they're working too, and that absent parents pay up for their children so that there doesn't need to be state support there too. Ensure that 0 hours contracts aren't the go to for any employers as well. Give people the means to be able to do this while still ensuring that jobs that society relies on get done.

Could I invoice my elderly parent for the care I give & collect the money from the estate after they die
Well if you're providing the care, there won't be a care bill to pay will there? So you stand to inherit when they die.

General feeling I'm getting from this thread that the low income members of society should be socially responsible for the good of society, and should just pretty much disappear when they are no longer of use, because they're just a drain then. But if you've done a bit better then you're entitled to have your living costs and care costs paid for and also pass your inheritance on to family, no social responsibility expected there.

Totally agree people should be able to work fulltime & be able to live if the money. 0 hour shitty contracts in most cases should be banned.

@HandlebarLadyTash

I live in social housing - I don't get housing benefit, I work full time and always have. I pay council tax and everything else that other people do. I mean admittedly, the bit cheaper rent means I can afford some luxuries like paying all the bills each month and having enough gas and electric, well after I'd paid for the things that social housing doesn't come with like a cooker and carpets that private rent comes with, pay less - get less, and that was a price well worth paying for a decent landlord and the security of a long term tenancy Vs what I got in private rent.

No one seems to mind me and my colleagues doing the caring now for minimum wage (keeping costs lower than they might otherwise be for tax payers and self funders) and paying tax and NI on it to contribute, until the reality hits that many are going to need social housing or their social care paid for because they haven't been able to earn enough to buy a house, then it's all unfair because the lazy scrounging freeloaders are taking the piss.
I'm getting a fair amount of hours at the moment, even on a 0 hours contract because no one wants to work in social care because of the pay and conditions, and with less and less staff and more complex care with a higher demand that's getting worse and no one gives a toss except when it comes to selling a house.

I totally agree that self funders should be paying the same as council funded beds, but the problem is that either the council aren't paying enough, so in order for the service to run at all the shortfall is made up from self funders, or that actually councils are paying enough and the self funders are maintaining and increasing the company profits.
Either way that's not the doing, or the fault of people who don't have assets or savings to pay for their own care, it's the fault of those who designed and maintain the system because they're allowing it to happen and seemingly encouraging it, while making the problem worse by paying jobs like care work the minimum allowed by law so that they won't be able to fund their own care should they need it.

Although the council may pay less going by the headline rate, there are other considerations.

Where I live, most of the LA funded beds are "block" beds. So the LA agrees to buy a number of beds from a Provider, and gets a discount for doing so. Just as you might negotiate a bulk-buy discount. Secondly, the LA pays for the bed whether or not it's occupied. So if the LA pay £700 pw as opposed to the self funder who pays £900 pw, but the bed is only occupied 75% of the time, the LA is actually paying more in real terms. Obviously the LA has to try to fill the beds to capacity, but it doesn't always happen.

I think an empty bed in a care home is as rare as hens' teeth. The rate IME is LA pays £500 and self funders pay £1000 to £1300. My self funding neighbour pays £1500 and the care home is very basic.

@endofthelinefinally

I think an empty bed in a care home is as rare as hens' teeth. The rate IME is LA pays £500 and self funders pay £1000 to £1300. My self funding neighbour pays £1500 and the care home is very basic.

I think at the moment, they're probably not as rare as they might be without covid and Omicron tbh, we have a couple at the moment and the restrictions on visiting, as well as the risks (once it's in a care home it's likely to go round and do so fast, even with all the measures in place that are). Rules on visiting have just been changed again and decreased. I think only those without a viable option of family or home care will be admitted before Christmas, although I am thinking there could be a move to discharge bed blockers into care homes again , though I think everyone learned their lessons there and they'll be tested before discharge, most homes I'd think now do isolate new residents, but with dementia it's not straightforward or practical, and of course the same staff are caring for everyone.

@endofthelinefinally. last year care home occupancy was 80%. It's going up again now, but there are certainly many care homes who are still below that figure.

That is pretty poor considering how many people are in hospital waiting for a bed.

Meanwhile, whilst people have to sell their home and care home staff are paid a pittance, some people are making huge sums of money from owning strings of care homes. There's money there. Just in the wrong place.

If care homes are so profitable why does the sector have a high financial failure rate?