To think that "wokeism" is for the privileged few?

[Mooscow]

Wokeism and identity politics seems rife at the moment in the UK. But Canada and the US seem even worse. There is this massive push to avoid the possibility of ever offending anyone, ever. For example, I work for a North American company and we've just been given a long list of words never to use. This includes "female", "blind", "deaf", "blacklist", "homeless", "rule of thumb" and it goes on and on and on. So you can't say things like "turn a blind eye" or "tone deaf" etc. any more in case it offends a blind or deaf person. Really?!

I've just read an article in the FT (sorry can't share) that says the US has only sent 111million out of its pledge to send 1 billion vaccines to poorer countries. The US has 2 and a half times the amount of vaccines it needs for itself and Canada has ordered 8 times what it needs.

I know that vaccines and wokeism has little in common but it just struck me how so much effort is put into this new purity culture whilst at the same time demonstrating utter selfishness and lack of compassion for anyone else.

It's also like the push to remove the word women from healthcare such as cervical screening in case a transman, as a "cervix haver" 🤮 is offended at being grouped with women, while 40% of women (especially those without English as a first language and those in lower socio-economic groups) don't even know what a cervix is. But screw them, let's let them get cervical cancer while we pat ourselves on the back and virtue signal at making sure we don't offend by telling the truth the tiny, tiny proportion of trans people.

I wonder if the whole work/identity politics stuff is based in the fact that privileged people can effortlessly virtue signal to feel better about themselves whilst remaining selfish, uncaring and apathetic towards people who are actually in need or vulnerable. AIBU?

Ah yes. Some of those who're persistently and unapologetically hurtful to others in their posts...

Interesting how the tides turn when things don't go their way. Always the same switch.

Ah yes. Some of those who're persistently and unapologetically hurtful to others in their posts.

Are you referring to Dame Fanny or someone else?

Even if this were a medical consultation, you have no way of knowing what elements of a transwoman's medical history might be relevant.

Their biological sex is relevant in and of itself, in medicine. Because male bodies are different genetically in six and a half thousand ways from female ones.

link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s40279-020-01389-3

Only women go through menopause. Only women give birth. Only women have periods. These things are realities of women's lives and experiences. If trans men have a problem with this, then organizations can make special material for them. They should be aware that they have women's bodies, or they wouldn't be trans men. Because no man is a trans man. That is an exclusively female experience. No man goes through menopause, birth, or periods. Only women do. Women who identify as women. And women who identify as trans men. Women is an inclusive term that identifies all the people who belong to the class of humans who produce large gametes, whether they have disorders of sexual development that mean they don't have periods or whether they do; whether they are too young or old to give birth or are of childbirth age; or no matter how they identify. Get it?

@supermoonrising

This is all PC, though. It’s been around half a century. Nothing to do with “woke” (for better or worse).

And my take on PC is 80% good 20% bad. It’s good that language that was seen as ok or just worthy of a giggle in the 80s/90s, stuff like “the Paki shop, Chink, coloured people, etc” is no longer acceptable. It’s a sign of progress and it’s a sign of progress that most people try to think carefully about the language they use where minority groups are concerned. And the occasional bit of silliness/overzealousness with language “policing” is a price worth paying.

True but now woke has allowed other underprivileged groups like the white working class to be abused with impunity. Nobody bats an eyelid at calling working class people all sorts of derogatory terms and blaming them for things that they were just as much victims of.

@334bu

*Ah yes. Some of those who're persistently and unapologetically hurtful to others in their posts.*

Are you referring to Dame Fanny or someone else?

Yes. The former.

I'm back, just reporting more transphobic posts. Hoping that Mumsnet zap this whole hateful thread but anyway.

My apologies for any offence caused with my references to intersex. No, I haven't studied this area.

I do remain unpersuaded that the entirety of human experience must be lined up into blue and pink boxes and remain there forever.

And I've queried my post deletion because I'm pretty sure I didn't call you a bigot - I've been pointing at behaviours rather than people.

Where did I insult you @AlfonsoTheUnrepentant?

You insulted me.

I do remain unpersuaded that the entirety of human experience must be lined up into blue and pink boxes and remain there forever.

Great! And are you aware that this is exactly the position of feminists and especially 'gender critical' feminists?

@334bu

You insulted me.

When and how?

@AlfonsoTheUnrepentant

I got an answer from @MNHQ* as to why my post was deleted but did not explain why personal attacks against me were allowed to stand. Very disappointing, as I have autism and it is important for me that communication is clear and consistent.

*I know that saying anything more than that will lead to me being banned, despite my explaining about my disability.

Hugs from me, too, Alfonso. I'm sorry.

Thank you, @ArabellaScott. Again, it is much appreciated!

[quote Ereshkigalangcleg]Even if this were a medical consultation, you have no way of knowing what elements of a transwoman's medical history might be relevant.

Their biological sex is relevant in and of itself, in medicine. Because male bodies are different genetically in six and a half thousand ways from female ones.

link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s40279-020-01389-3[/quote]
Yep. Sex-specific medecine is enormously important, sex is a huge factor in so many situations. It can't be hand-waved away or blurred into 'gender'. It matters.

gendermed.org/about-gsm/

• that link to the 'gender specific medicine' website has the following notes:

'There are profoundly significant sex differences in the therapeutic power of drugs and their side effects.
Men have less vigorous immune systems and are less able to fight some types of infection.
The part of the brain that moderates impulsive behavior is not yet fully developed in adolescent males, but it is in females. As a result, teenage boys often exhibit risky behavior that makes them prone to accidents. Accidental death and suicide are the chief causes of death for boys of this age.
Women are more likely to develop disorders of the heart rhythm. The electrical properties of the heart are different between the sexes, and the mechanisms of heart failure are gender-specific.
It is untrue that women are the “weaker sex.” Evidence shows that men are more vulnerable in the womb and throughout their lives. Two hundred forty males are conceived for every 100 females. Yet, the ratio of actual birth is 1.05 boys to 1 girl. Men live a much more fragile existence throughout their lives and, on average, die six years earlier than women.
Even identical genes are expressed differently in males and females. Gender plays a crucial role in genomic manipulation.'

@Mooscow Not got a clue what you are on about, your OP is inaccurate too, basic research not done e.g the USA has in fact sent 280m doses abroad.

In RL no one gives a XXXX about woke and it also sounds like you don't know what it means either, its just another term bandied about to attempt to insult anyone someone happens not to agree with "oh your just being a woke"

Woke actually means "alert to injustice, esp racism" is that so wrong???

Perhaps try Googling NHS Womens Services before you hit us with non existent scare story? in my area it is packed full of womens specific treatments and services, i looked at 2 or 3 and found zero mention of men or trans.

At my last check up, normal language was used, no males were present.

Perhaps try Googling NHS Womens Services before you hit us with non existent scare story

Did you not read links upthread. In some parts of the UK the word woman is often removed.

16:53DameFanny

334bu

You insulted me.

When and how?

You accused me of hate speech. I consider that quite insulting.

It's also a personal attack, @334bu, and on that basis the relevant post(s) should be deleted.

You used hate speech when you denied The existence of transwomen @334bu. If you're insulted by the term hate speech, use different words.

It's not a personal attack to make a factual description of someone's behaviour @AlfonsoTheUnrepentant.

@334bu, I hope you are well this evening.

You used hate speech when you denied The existence of transwomen @334bu. If you're insulted by the term hate speech, use different words.

At no time have I ever denied the existence of trans people. Every society has had gender non conforming people and many throughout time have and had discrete groups who are/ were acknowledged as separate from male and female.

If you think I denied trans people's existence, I would be grateful if you could quote where I said this.

"Of course transmen can get pregnant as they have a female reproductive system and they should be included in anything to do with their female bodies"

"Transwomen are the ones with male bodies not transmen."

Denying the reality of transitioned bodies @334bu. A transwoman will probably have a prostate, but with breasts added and penis removed you can't call her male-bodied.

Likewise a transman with top and bottom surgery can't be described as female-bodied.

So no matter what a trans person has gone through or is going through, no matter how they present and how long they've presented, they should announce their assigned at birth sex to any questioner and stay in a discrete group separate from male or female?

But you're not denying their existence?

I'm back, just reporting more transphobic posts. Hoping that Mumsnet zap this whole hateful thread but anyway.

Hmm 6 posts deleted on this thread, 3 of them yours but thanks for revealing your real agenda.

Anyway this is what purity culture looks like to me. Most decent human beings want equality and social justice but we'd rather it wasn't achieved through tyranny.