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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To think the school policy is outrageous?

91 replies

wonderstuff · 01/12/2021 19:05

Ds came home yesterday and told me he’d spent the day in isolation because he had forgotten his planner twice. Turns out he’d lost it. The planner is used to record times the kids have forgotten equipment or infringed uniform expectations.

Sent email to school as surely this was wrong, had my son intact sworn or been disruptive? School replied that it is indeed policy to isolate for a day for forgetting a planner twice.

I’m raging. All the missed schooling and they’re happy to exclude a child from more schooling for forgetting something. He’s very forgetful, I have adhd and suspect he has too, he’s not trying to be difficult or subvert the system. He’s in year 7.

I’ve been a teacher 20 years and never know isolation to be used for such a minor infringement. The same punishment for fighting and forgetting a book seems mad?

I’m not sure what to do, this is our local school, we live rurally so not many alternatives. I work at a great, inclusive school and could put him on the waiting list there but it’s 40 minutes away.

The school he’s had recently set for core subjects and he’s in bottom sets as well I’m worried this school is going to break him.

OP posts:

TatianaBis · 01/12/2021 20:32

40 minutes is nothing OP, I’d do it in a heartbeat.

Some boys are a bit all over the place whether ADHD or not. They need support not isolation.

bizboz · 01/12/2021 20:37

My DC's secondary school is like this. Really strict on uniform and equip but still don't seem to have a grip on recurrent bad behaviour in lessons. I have voiced my feelings but they were ignored. Sadly no other schools with spaces that would be practical to get to.

CurlyhairedAssassin · 01/12/2021 20:38

Sounds very harsh. And unfair. My kids' school did away with planners during the pandemic, think they saw them as a COVID risk if teachers had to touch multiple kids' planners. It's not changed anything, and probably saved school a lot of money every year.

Your son's school has probably gone down this harsh route because kids have got wise to the fact that if they accidentally on purpose lose their planner then the evidence for their misdemeanours is lost.There are better online ways for teachers to record behaviour system infringements, and they are better for informing parents too. Plus, in some schools where behaviour is a real problem, kids don't get penalised if someone in the class takes their planner to get them on trouble on purpose. (Sadly, this does happen in some school, particularly to the less streetwise or self-assured kids).

That said, if you knew there was such an emphasis on planners and you knew your son had some organisational problems, why didn't you do your utmost to help him with a routine to make sure he had it every day? And give him advice about always keeping it in his bag apart from when he is writing in it, and putting it back in his bag immediately afterwards?

If this were me, though, and you think the behaviour system could do with changing a bit, I would email the head of year and express my thoughts (in a reasonable manner) that you view isolation as a bit harsh for forgetting a planner. I bet you any money the heads of year would agree with youuf they could, and this is isolation punishemnt is something dreamed up by SLT......But if enough reasonable and supportive parents (not ranty) email in, SLT can't ignore and may think of a better alternative.

ViceLikeBlip · 01/12/2021 20:47

It's 2021 - what schools are still using planners?!!

But more seriously- I'm a teacher, and I hate bullshit like this. Like you say, a severe punishment like isolation should be reserved for something with malicious intent. I know some people are huge believers in "zero tolerance" policies, but I'm a big believer in being kind to children 🤷‍♀️

Melroses · 01/12/2021 20:47

if they accidentally on purpose lose their planner then the evidence for their misdemeanours is lost.

LOL - in my day they would have been forged, altered, never mind lost lol🤣

Doublevodka · 01/12/2021 20:53

I think that’s is far too harsh. If you think he has ADHD definitely pursue a diagnosis. My daughter was diagnosed at 15. No amount of isolation, detentions or punishment made the slightest difference to her ability to remember, organise, time manage, not lose things and still wouldn’t. She tries really hard too but it is extremely difficult to manage. Meds help but only with focusing on particular tasks. I feel so sad for you son that he is being punished for something he potentially really really cannot help.

Notmoresugar · 01/12/2021 20:54

Why don't you put him on the waiting list to go to your school; you go there everyday anyway and it sounds far more suitable for him?

AmberArtichoke · 01/12/2021 20:57

Pull him out. Simple. Schools shouldn't be using isolation rooms these days. They need to review their behaviour policy urgently.

Mamajunebugjones · 01/12/2021 20:59

Is this something you could raise with the school governors? Isolation is an extreme form of punishment.

Other public bodies eg mental health, police / judiciary have to make sure their responses are proportional due to human rights infringements.

Why should schools be any different? If you don’t get any joy from school head or governors about their use of isolation- I would raise with your local MP

BlankTimes · 01/12/2021 21:00

Why can't they? Serious question

Because schools would be asked to make provisions for all sorts of things for children based only on their parents' concerns.

Some parents would be correct in the interventions they requested, but some would be way off beam. How cold school tell?

DrCoconut · 01/12/2021 21:06

It's nonsense and makes things worse for children with additional needs. DS1 had completely disengaged from school by year 11 and left with next to no qualifications. He didn't really settle at college because his experience of education was so tainted and he's now NEET other than some voluntary work for a local charity. That is my least worry really, as long as his improved mental health stays that way I'm happy. He has a diagnosis of autism and the removal of pressure to fit in, go places, do things etc has been an unexpected godsend from covid.

Santaischeckinglists · 01/12/2021 21:11

I removed ds in May.. Apparently 18 hours in isolation over 3 days was acceptable.. Took him out on day 2 and he never went back..
In a new school awaiting adhd /autism referral.

NessieMcNessface · 01/12/2021 21:15

I support very clear rules and sanctions but this is certainly a step too far! The school I worked in would have issued a detention, but whole day isolations were reserved for more serious behaviours such as refusing to comply, or using inappropriate language.

fourminutestosavetheworld · 01/12/2021 21:16

I agree that it's a harsh punishment but presume all of the kids understand that this is the consequence for forgetting a planner twice. Surely he was told this when he forgot it the first time?

Instead of being livid with the school why not put your energies into supporting your son to remember what he needs each morning? A list on his bedroom door, a big reminder on the door he leaves the house by, or you could remind him? He is going to need strategies and that would be more useful than showing him that you are furious with them for enforcing this policy.

I don't think it's discriminatory if he isn't on their SEN register, hasn't got a diagnosis and hasn't started the referral process.

Lady1576 · 01/12/2021 21:19

Totally disproportionate and wrong. Challenge it! It’s not just wrong for your child if they have adhd but for any child. I’m pretty sure I don’t have adhd but I was always forgetful and never wanted to be! It was never deliberate or thoughtless - just something my brain couldn’t get around.

AmberArtichoke · 01/12/2021 21:20

This is my son's school - no more detentions and no isolation rooms, as they don't work and no one benefits. There are several children with SEN (ADHD / ASD) too who certainly didn't benefit from being 'punished'.

www.lythamstannes.news/news/top-fylde-independent-school-abolishes-detentions/?amp

Ericaequites · 01/12/2021 21:32

He needs more support at home, learning to check things off and not leaving things behind. The punishment was disproportionate and unreasonable. I lost lots of things at that age, but both the school and my mother helped me to make lists and keep track of stuff. Label everything, have a pencil case for the book bag and separate one at his home desk, and be encouraging.

Backtomyoldname · 01/12/2021 21:34

Missing a break - fair enough.

But a day in isolation is not on. He’s missed out on a day’s education despite them saying, as they will, that work was provided.

Sadly too many school seem to be going down the unnecessarily harsh punishment route. I’m not convinced it really creates a better school/education/exam grades. An atmosphere of bullying and control just creates resentment.

There’s a joke about being nice to our own children because they will be choosing our nursing home.

To reword it - be nice to pupils because one might be giving you a future smear test. (As happened to one of my old colleagues!)

Whatinthelord · 01/12/2021 21:40

This is a ridiculous policy.
I really only see internal exclusion/isolation as appropriate and useful in a very small number of situations.

It seems completely disproportionate for forgetting a planner twice.
Even for more significant behaviour issues I don’t believe this is an effective strategy. The same children will end up in isolation over and over, probably mainly kids with additional needs or other issues at home.

Our education system really fucking frustrates me sometimes.

Blondeshavemorefun · 01/12/2021 21:42

Seems a littleharsh

Detention or miss break etc

But what’s the point I. Him missing 6hrs of lessons

Ozanj · 01/12/2021 21:42

The best thing you can do to help him is provide him with a strategy so he doesn’t forget things. But in this instance you might want to pursue a diagnosis first - schools won’t offer him the support that will actually help (eg electronic planners) without it.

Doona · 01/12/2021 21:51

@BlankTimes

Why can't they? Serious question

Because schools would be asked to make provisions for all sorts of things for children based only on their parents' concerns.

Some parents would be correct in the interventions they requested, but some would be way off beam. How cold school tell?

Aren't they supposed to be experts in education? They should be able to tell if kids need more support with their planning, social skills or reading or whatever. To me, it seems as though a teacher who sees the child every day should be better placed to judge it than a clinician who sees them on one occasion for an assessment.

Lougle · 01/12/2021 21:53

It's similar, I guess, to my DDs' school. They have a 'proud card' that they carry at all times. 3 ticks on the proud card means isolation for one day. Not having your proud card means isolation for one day. Otherwise, kids would just 'lose' their proud card.

DD1 goes to special school and the difference is huge. She constantly loses her planner and says 'I'm sure my teacher will have it for me in the morning....'. Her teachers know that having possession of her planner is the very least of their priorities for her.

BurbageBrook · 01/12/2021 22:02

Ridiculous policy. Sounds draconian. Can you write to the governors if they won’t take you seriously?

BoredZelda · 01/12/2021 22:12

You can't accuse them of discrimination if you have not seen the GP and been referred for an assessment.

My child has a visible disability. Are you suggesting that if she didn’t have a formal diagnosis, the school should not make adjustments for her? Or is it only for intellectual disabilities you think this ridiculous policy should be in place?

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