Why do people let their kids tantrum to then give in when they’ve had enough?

[LittleBirdy1]

I can’t understand why people put themself and everyone around you through the screaming, leg kicking, hitting, spitting, throwing things, biting and all the other nonsense that goes with it just to give in after 30 minutes or so. My friend who I have known for over 15 years is like this with her youngest and it’s getting to the point where I don’t want to meet up with them. He is 5 just started reception so not a baby or a toddler and old enough to know that his behaviour is not acceptable. Yesterdays meet up he wanted her phone, she said no (he has a history of smashing the screens) he tantrums. During the tantrum he, bite his sister, head butted his mum, throw all the cushions off the sofa, throw his sisters switch and smashed the screen, knocked a hot drink off the coffee table smashing the mug, punched and slammed the living room door, unrolled a couple of toilet rolls from the downstairs loo and tore them up and lastly kicked me twice. After he kicked me she gave in and gave him the phone! She asked if he was hot and bothered and needed a cuddle! A telling off is what he needed but what I don’t get is why we have to endure that for over 30 minutes for her to just give him the phone, surely it would be a lot easier to give it to him in the first place? He goes and goes and goes until she gives in so he has be taught to tantrum to get his own way. Her phone rang and she asked for it back leading to him starting up again throwing the phone up the fireplace and smashing it. So my AIBU here to say I only want to meet up when he is at school and after school for the other kids when he is at his dads?

Because they are sick of the whining and can't take it any more I expect.

It can be hard to hold firm. Particularly once you've given in even one or two times because by doing so you teach them that if they tantrum long enough, you'll cave. So they learn to carry on and on and on and each time you cave, you re-enforce that and their next tantrum goes on that little bit longer.

Oh and yanbu to want to give that kid a miss.

Sounds like she has the best intentions of being firm to hold off for 30mins but he sounds like hard work and she's probably knackered! It is difficult and I'm not saying she is right to give in (I would have taken him out of the room or left if it was one of mine) but sometimes you're so worn down by your kids you do things you probably shouldn't for a quiet life.

Have you got kids OP?

Because they are sick of the whining and can't take it any more I expect.

Exactly.

YANBU (it's incredibly annoying for your time with her to be taken up with this behaviour) but she clearly hasn't got the techniques to deal with this.

I was lucky (and I think it mostly was luck) my kids never had tantrums like this. I did say no, and mean it. I expect they realised this & didn't tantrum. If they did, I'd have left.

However, I find it hard now that they are older to impose consequences, and stick to them, despite whatever whinging / moaning they throw at me. I try as much as I can but definitely during lockdown ended up caving. (Obviously not biting, screaming etc behaviour, just them nagging at me).

It's a shame for both her & the DC. It's not good for them to lose control so much, and then be rewarded.

Yanbu.

Before I had kids I thought this, and usually when you have dc you go "ahhh ok, it's not that simple" and you become less judgy about general parenting.

But on this particular topic, turns out (SEN aside), that kids do know when parents give in and they capitalise on this. So its entirely possible (SEN aside) to be firm on this.

In the situation you describe, where tantrums are effectively managed, it wouldn't have even got halfway down your list of his actions, let alone getting to the giving in part.

Is there a reason the Mum gives in like this? Sometimes (not always) its things like tried for a dc for 20 years so dont want to be firm / doing it alone and cant get the energy together to tackle it / guilt at reduced time together so dont like to be bad cop.

Not always, and not really "excuseable" but sometimes is the reason.

Well it's obvious why she gave in, although of course she shouldn't, and it'll only make it harder still to stand firm in future.

I don't think that sounds like normal behaviour, though, even if she's bad at discipline? Perhaps she should see a specialist.

He is hard work yes and she is a single parent to 4 kids, the older 3 have no contact with their dad. Surely tho you would save yourself the tantrum and just give in in the first place? He has broken so many things, they are currently without a TV as he though a boot with a heel at it when he was told no over something else, she gave in after he broke the TV as well.

Surely tho you would save yourself the tantrum and just give in in the first place?

In simplistic terms, yes. The options are stand firm and always mean no when you say no or give them what they ask for.

But there are many many factors why someone takes the path she has. It becomes too much of a grey area for outsiders to pass opinion.

What is she like with the elder dcs?

He is hard work yes and she is a single parent to 4 kids, the older 3 have no contact with their dad. Surely tho you would save yourself the tantrum and just give in in the first place?

Well the poor woman is probably TRYING to do the right thing, especially if she has am audience and is afraid of being judged.

Yes I have 3 dc and they certainly have never acted in this way. My 3 dc are the same school years as her older dc and good friends. Her older 3 NEVER acted like this either, so good knows what’s going on with this one.

Considering how much he smashed she'll be bankrupt soon and there won't have a phone to demand from her.

I do find it interesting that she gave in after he started attacking you though, I'm not sure what I would do in that situation that someone else was being hurt.

I think it is completely reasonable to not want to meet up with him there, it doesn't sound nice for anyone involved. It isn't clear if you have children that play with her children, or if it is just adults meeting. Either way you can tactfully sidestep future meeting by saying it was obvious he didn't enjoy playing with your kids/mummy having an adult friend round...

It sounds like she held out longer than normal (or her house would be completely destroyed) because you were there and she was embarrassed to just give in easily. This shows that she knows she shouldn't be giving in to it, so there's no point in labouring the point or saying anything to her about parenting, she's not going to change.

Oh wow that does sound quite stressful for everyone!

I wonder if once he kicked you she was just absolutely mortified and wanted it to stop? I don’t agree with the way she handled it (I would also have been mortified and child would have had massive telling off!) but I do think things can get out of hand sometimes and especially if you are thinking ‘I have a guest what must they be thinking?!’ it can change the dynamic and usual parenting strategies.

Well, probably something.

Given that she clearly can parent, as she has 3 well behaved children, I'm really surprised that a friend would immediately go to "she doesnt manage him well enough" rather than "I wonder if he has additional needs/a reason for his behaviour"

It's because she gives in his behaviour is so bad. 5 is far too old for tantrums. I wouldn't be going anywhere near them.

This sounds rather extreme behaviour for a five year old. I suggest she would benefit from the opinion of a professional in case she is able to access additional support. Whilst YANBU to want to avoid her child, you could perhaps support her rather than judge her.

Since she also has three older is it possible there is something going on you don’t know about? An additional need or just a massively different personality to her older children? Possibly her usual tactics just don’t work with this one?

Of course she could just be REALLY tired by now

Perhaps he was bored of not having his mum playing with / giving him much attention while you were visiting? 5 is still very young for a child to entertain themselves for an extended period of time. Also reception is a big change for lots of children, so more tantrums are to be expected for a while.

@BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz

Well, probably something.

Given that she clearly can parent, as she has 3 well behaved children, I'm really surprised that a friend would immediately go to "she doesnt manage him well enough" rather than "I wonder if he has additional needs/a reason for his behaviour"

It doesn’t surprise me, having had a child with special needs. My other two where perfectly well behaved but when one had off the scale tantrums (like the OP’s friend’s child) everyone, including multiple professionals, put it down to my poor parenting and the fact that I “gave in”. So obviously you try not to give in but then it does more harm than good. Now he has a diagnosis, we get no more crap parenting advice and have a happy, tantrum free household.

Sounds like the child might have additional needs.

Sounds to me like he needs an assessment and she needs support. You saw maybe 30 minutes of it. This is her life.

I would have stood up the first time he kicked me and said 'sorry, I'm not staying to be kicked. I'll meet up with you on our own at some point' and left. And yes, I have 2 DS, one with ADHD. He WAS a nightmare at times, but you have to be firm and find ways of dealing with it. She has made a rod for her own back now and god knows what will happen in the future. Does he attack his siblings?

Urgh I had a friend like that. Had a constant stash of crappy snacks in her dd's baby bag to give her ds so we could manage a short trip to he shops. My dd's weren't perfect but were slightly miffed crisps and ket weren't coming their way.
Glad when we stopped being friends tbh.

Because they are human and not a robot. Support would be nice not judgement.