Breaking point with 5 year old

[Mummypig7]

Sorry if this is in the wrong place, I wasn’t sure where to post. But I’m pretty much at breaking point with my 5 year old. He’s awkward, won’t listen, won’t do as he’s told. He’s just a nightmare. This morning on the way to school he takes my phone out of my pocket and runs off with it with his friends. I couldn’t get it back off him as I was in the school line with my pram. He then throws it on the wet grass twice now my volume is a bit hit and miss. He then throws himself onto the wet floor saying “ouch my leg” even though there was nothing wrong with it. A mum who I have got quite friendly with at school has a 2 year old in a buggy and he tries to kick him and she tells him not to do it (which is totally fine I don’t blame her, I could have strangled him) I was mortified. I haven’t brought him up to do things like that. I nearly ended up crying to her in frustration. I just don’t know what else I can do with him. I have tried all sorts. I’ve tried taking his tablet off him, no treats, naughty step, sticker chart for good behaviour. Nothing I do makes him behave. When I shout he will laugh and say “I’m not bothered” I’m just so exhausted with him

You poor thing, that sounds impossibly hard.

Have you spoken to his teachers about his behaviour at school?

Have you got any concerns about his development?

Sounds like my 5yo. We are seeing a support worker about her next week. School only seem to punish her rather than finding out why she does these things.

@Confusedandworried321 Well the teacher had to speak to me last month as he had been being cheeky and not listening to her. He got punished for this and has since started to behave in class as I ask her quite frequently. She said she has no concerns yet but is keeping an eye on him. I have wondered about his development but I have no experience in this so I don’t know what to think or where to start

Nothing I can say to help. But my 5 year old lg is being challenging right now, the tantrums and manipulation tactics are out of this world. Makes me wonder what I have done wrong for her behavior to be like this. Although she would never dare behave like this at school or in front of others. You have my sympathy

Very clear attention seeking behaviour IMO. Has he struggled since the pregnancy/ birth of younger sibling? Or have there been any other changes in the family/ at home?
What is he like at school?
My Ds (6) was quite hard work with me (but not his dad) at 5. Prompted probably by our separation when he was 4.
Lots of extra love, attention & recognition for good things. We do Pokemon cards as positive reinforcement.
What have you tried so far?

Also do you have a good balance of downtime & structured activities?
Things like beavers, sports/ drama clubs can really help with burning excess energy.

@magicstars I have thought attention seeking too. He sticks out like a sore thumb in the playground. Always has to be the one shouting. No changes at home and I’ve not noticed a change since the baby has come along. Well nothing out of the ordinary anyway. His dad is a lot stricter than me and he listens to him more. But he works full time so I’m left with most of his behaviour. Punishment wise I have taken his toys and tablet away, no treats, no tv, naughty step. But none of this is working. For good behaviour I’ve tried a sticker chart, bought him a small toy, taken him on extra days out but the good behaviour only lasts whilst he’s being bought a new toy or when he’s being taken out. After that he goes back to the bad behaviour

@magicstars He goes to a sports after school club on a Monday and then a football camp Saturday mornings

Definitely share your concerns with the teacher again if he's not getting along with peers at school. Could it be a response to bullying?

If you are very concerned & can afford it, then a play therapist would be a useful route to get to the bottom of what going on.

My DC school do mindfulness groups at lunch, maybe yours does too? They usually have some sort of emotional support system in place.

Be polite but firm with school to get them to pay proper attention to your concerns.

When you say shouting in the playground, how do the other dc react?

@magicstars I don’t think he’s being bullied, he’s never mentioned anything and he seems to have a lot of friends from what I’ve seen in the playground. I’m not sure of any groups but I’ll ask. He’s been cheeky more than once in class, I’ve been called in twice now and the teacher told me if this keeps happening then I’ll have to have a meeting with the headteacher. But since that they haven’t mentioned anything. Maybe that’s what needs to happen

@magicstars They laugh and tell him he’s funny

Ah so perhaps he's getting the positive reinforcement for his behaviours from peers, & doesn't know where the 'silly' behaviour is appropriate.
Yes request the meeting with the head now so the school are fully on board x

How much screen time does he have and what is he watching/ what games is he playing? When you take the tablet off him, how long do you ban him for?

@tpmumtobe He has an hour after school on his tablet then half an hour watching tv later on. He sometimes plays roblox but I keep an eye on what he is playing. Other times he will play football games. He watches Ryan’s toys on YouTube mainly or films. I ban him for the rest of the day if he’s being naughty and if he is good in the mornings getting ready for school he can have his hour when he gets home

My DS is cheeky at school too. I think he’s got ADHD and am starting the assessment process.

He isn’t as “naughty” at home as you’ve described yours, but he is very defiant, I always have to ask several times for him to do things.

We are being told we need a meeting with the headteacher as well. She's got a smiley fave reward chart and they get stars in school with rewards and she's had 2 rewards etc so she can be good.

At this time of year children are exhausted over stimulated and excited. I tend to view December as survival until Christmas holidays. Don't worry yourself too much he will be ok and this will pass- I'm not saying don't discipline him but don't worry yourself over this x

It sounds like the framework of punishment and reward isn't working for him. It is very often the case that the carrot and stick approach fails, because it teaches children to behave for the purpose of obtaining external validation, rather than developing their internal motivation to be kind, helpful etc. This means that when the external reward isn't available (because no one is watching or good behaviour is expected without a reward) the child has no motivation to behave and so they misbehave to get attention, or the promise of a reward if they do then start behaving.

I really recommend a book called 'the unconditional parent' by Alfie Cohn. It has really helpful advice on parenting without the use of punishments and rewards, and helping children to develop their own internal motivation for behaving.

@Confusedandworried321 That has crossed my mind but I’m not sure. I did mention that to his teacher at parents evening, she said it could be a possibility and to keep monitoring him from both ends. And I’m very much familiar with having to ask him to do things several times! Drives me mad.

@User5252727 that’s really interesting as I think that’s a big thing for my DS. Consequences and rewards do work for him, but it has to be worth his while and pretty immediate. I met with his teacher and SENCO at school and they suggested changing tack and using language around “good/bad choices” to try and encourage him to take responsibility for making these choices himself. It’s working well at home, so far, I don’t know about school.

I’ll give that book a read!

Is it constant or just at specific times? Maybe some things are triggering him. What's he like at school?

I ask because you mention the school line at drop off. My own Ds would get very overwhelmed at both drop offs and pick ups with the amount of parents and kids. He would start thrashing himself around, playing up, throwing things around etc. I had to speak to the shcool and ask if he could enter and leave by the main reception for a while. It's fine now he's older though.

Other than that, I don't have much advice. Just set clear boundaries and hope it's just a passing phase. You have my sympathy though 💕

@GrandTheftWalrus That sounds a good idea. I’ll see if they have anything like that in place.

@coronafiona thank you x

@User5252727 That’s interesting. There’s so much to parenting that I don’t know. I will try and find that book thank you

@Mummypig7 I would seriously rethink the Roblox at age 5. I have two boys who had plenty of managed screen time from a young age but I banned the oldest from Roblox until age 9 and then younger one still isn't allowed on it. The difference in their behaviour when they were on Roblox was incredible compared to other games. It's so addictive, even the games aimed at younger kids, it's PEGI7 for a reason. They couldn't moderate their behaviour once they came off it, they were rude, snappy, shouty it was grim. Once I banned it their behaviour improved massively. Don't get me wrong, they still get loads of screen time, I think it's impractical to ban it completely, but you should try him on Minecraft or something a bit less frantic, see if it helps?

I have a younger toddler and have been following Big Little Feelings on insta and have purchased their course. It might be useful but check the age range is appropriate.
Strategies like focusing 1 on 1 attention with them every day, praising good behaviour, explaining it's ok to be angry but suggest alternative outlets than kicking/hurting others rather than punishment.
Lots of prepping to avoid 'surprises' e.g it's bath time in 5 mins, bath time in 1 min, now it's bath time.