To change careers and become a doctor at 39?

[ValleyOfTheTramadols]

Just that really. I have a degree and a masters in humanities and history respectively but have always been interested in science and medicine as well. My masters specialised in medical history. I’ve spent a lot of time in hospital with my son recently and I have developed a strong urge/feeling/calling to retrain in medicine. I would have to sit A levels in two science subjects before applying to a medical course but I could do that in a year. Then with the six year medical degree and first foundation year I could be a ‘full’ doctor by the age of 47. Nearly 20 years or more left of a career by then. I only recently completed my masters so I’m used to intense study as an adult and I can afford it financially. But am I just deluded?

A mum I know did it she’s awesome. Her Dh the default parent though.

It's a bit hard to know without knowing you.

Don't want to put you off, but a level chemistry/biology isn't a walk in the park.

I new a few top students when I was studying my A-levels that didn't get in to medical school. That was the mid 90s, maybe things are different now.

@AnnaMagnani

The key phrase in that £100k is 'inc all benefits' - ie the pension contributions you aren't seeing. And it imagines you are fulltime which is becoming rare as so few can manage it without burnout.

And even so, most salaried GPs, which is most GPs are on nowhere near that anyway. Think less, a lot less.

My 33 year old husband GP earned £100k last year. He is hardly the exception.

Would not do anything else*

@burnoutbabe

getting into a GEM course (graduate entry) is VERY VERY competitive.

And it will cost you tons, as no loans for this as a second degree.

This is incorrect you can get loans for medicine as a second degree

Also if money is the primary motivation I wouldn’t recommend this route unless you want to give up in a few years time

I'm currently in year 3 of a 4 year graduate medicine degree. I started when I was 39.

If you want to chat, feel free to message me

I'm not saying that it's unrealistic or impossible. If OP has the time, determination and money then yes, it's possible to get on to a medical degree and complete it. But I think it's bonkers because I can't understand why OP would chose to put herself through it.

A friend of mine began this process at about 36. The junior doctor shifts are unbelivably tough - he has young children and a wife at home doing most of the childcare - who would be coveirng for you on very long shifts - he also is not able to just walk off shift when they finish - often finishes an hour or two late even when been on all night.

You say in your OP that you have just finished a masters. When you researched it and signed up for it you must have had some idea of it leading into a specific role/job. Why is that no longer a possibility ?

I’d have a chat to some Drs you know about the reality of the job and the training, and if you still feel the calling then GO FOR IT.

Life is to be lived, not regretted in hindsight.

@burnoutbabe

getting into a GEM course (graduate entry) is VERY VERY competitive.

And it will cost you tons, as no loans for this as a second degree.

I know four people who got into medicine through graduate entry. Two had humanities degrees, one had a degree in biochemistry, and another was a qualified physiotherapist.

The world, and the UK, needs more doctors - I'd say go for it.

One of my colleages (30ish) left earlier this year to study medicine. She was part of our comms team, and didn't have any science A levels. She applied at very short notice, and accepted the place, handed in her notice and moved, all within a period of about 2 months.

University of Ulster, in case you're interested.

Don’t do it. I am late 30s, still a junior doctor and have a couple of years left of training. I don’t think I would make the same decisions now knowing what I do. Sadly years and years as a junior doctor and a system that treats us like children has ground me down even though I love the work itself. So many hoops to jump through

You don't mention a partner. I have a couple of friends who have done something similar but from seeing their experiences I think it is only possible as a parent if you have a very supportive partner and / or other family support on hand.

@ValleyOfTheTramadols happy for you to message me if you want to know more as to why I say don’t do it.

@AnnaMagnani

Nope GPs do not go into GP practice after F2, they are skilled professionals who have to train as GPs which takes 3 years (longer if less than full time).

While training they are paid as trainees £35-38K (bearing in mind they are liking to be carrying £80K of debt)

Once qualified they have to find a job as a GP for which there is no national payscale - salaried GPs are paid less than partners, but partnership is currently unpopular due to the risks and burdens of taking on the business.

OK, thank you - I did not mean that they would be practicing independently, but that they will be earning quite well while qualifying. Is there also student debt for medical students - the ones I know have all tuition fees paid by the NHS from the second year as a grant?

I qualified as a nurse at 39, so fully support you in being a mature student/career changer. I’m 48 now and training to be a nurse specialist. It was hard in my 30’s, it’s way harder now.

However, I wouldn’t advise going into medicine at that age. There’s a reason many HCPs retire early. Its very, very long hours, very stressful, not worth the money.

I’d consider another route and was going to suggest physicians associate as others have.

There are other clinical positions which require some but not as much study/ placements. Some wouldn’t require retaking a levels. Do you have an area of interest?

While training they are paid as trainees £35-38K To be fair, not many trainees get paid as much as that. That's quite a way above the national average salary.

There have been threads on this before that it's worth searching for. In all honesty I don't think it's worth it.

I'm a consultant aged 34 and I couldn't keep going at my current intensity past my mid fifties I think.

OH did medicine as a postgraduate degree then took time out for a PhD. He is 40 now and is 2 years off completing his surgical training. He is exhausted by the night shifts in a way that he wasn't a decade ago when doing FY.

Although you're a "full" doctor at the end of F1 there are very few non training jobs with decent work life balance you could slot into at that stage. Non training post-F1 jobs are generally on F2 style shifts but with none of the protections for bleep free teaching etc. If you wanted to be a GP you'd be looking at a minimum 4 more years (F2 and GPST1-3) or between 6-9 more years to finish as a consultant in a hospital based specialty. GP training is intense- many of the doctors people see in the middle of the night in A&E, admitting them onto acute wards etc, are GPs in training. If you didn't want to be a consultant but wanted to practice fairly independently, there are specialty doctor jobs. But most of these call for at least completion of FY1 and FY2 and a year or so experience in the relevant specialty.

The thing to think about is the shift work and the fact that rostered hours are subject to change and you have almost no say over your location for training contracts. Having family commitments in e.g. one area of the country wouldn't prioritise you for a job there it's all about how well you do in national recruitment.

I was 27 when I moved onto a rota with non-residential on call (rather than shifts you work a regular day then can be phoned any time through the night) and even then it was tiring being woken up and dragging myself in to deal with stuff at 3am then working a normal day afterwards. I'm better at it now I have a toddler!
Most people work a minimum of an hour or so a day beyond their rostered hours and now with remote working all my colleagues (tertiary specialty) are logging in at night to check results, sign off reports etc. We are well paid and most don't mind. But it does mean that what's on paper doesn't match the reality.

There are lots of other related jobs you could train in faster, and be an independent practitioner much earlier. You could look up physician assistant courses to start with.

Something that's also worth saying is that medicine is very hierarchical- there is a team from consultant to registrar to junior doctor. If you would be OK with your boss (and educational supervisor) being possibly 20 years younger than you then that's fine, but I do know people who have struggled with that.

Yes there totally is medical student debt. Tuition fees is not the only debt from studying - accomodation, general living costs, longer terms, more years, less opportunity for jobs due to less holidays and so on.

A brief google shows different figures estimating the average UK medical student debt but all are in the tens of thousands.

Compare to when I qualified and came out with £8K overdraft and a student loan I paid off in about 5 years.

Regular poster but NC as I never mention my profession here.
It's not impossible, but I would strongly advise against it.
If you started next year and everything went swimmingly and you did everything full time, let's say you've got 5 years as an undergraduate, 2 foundation years and 3 years GP training (or several years more for a hospital specialty) - so a decade or so at least before you are in a permanent job. Virtually everyone I know who is either a hospital Consultant or GP over 50 is counting down the days til they can retire. You'd be just starting.
You might think of the end of the Foundation years as being a "full doctor" but honestly, it isn't. That's when the work really begins as you would be studying for professional exams whilst working long hours, quite probably on a rotation that would involve long commutes and frequent changes of location that you tend not to get any say in. GP might be a bit more manageable as the training schemes tend not to move you around so much, but it's still tough. Admittedly I trained a long time ago and the hours are not as bad now but when I was doing my exams I would be out of the house by 6am every day, rarely home before 7.30pm on days when I wasn't on call at which point I had to start studying for by far the hardest exams I've ever done. And the whole every third weekend was spent at work. It was relentless - work, study, sleep, nothing else. I don't think I could have done it as a middle aged woman with children. Pretty much every specialty is on shifts now its true, so in some ways it isn't as bad, but in others I think its worse to be a trainee now and i feel for my junior colleagues.
I have actively discouraged my children from following in my footsteps, as have most of my friends and colleagues.
What you are thinking of probably isn't impossible but it would be very hard and may well come at a high price for your family life. I would suggest you talk to as many doctors as possible and look for some kind of work in the health sector - even voluntary - to get a better idea of the reality. (I imagine any medical school would expect that anyway before accepting you.)
I agree with the other posters who have suggested you look at things like the AHPs as an alternative. There are lots of avenues that you could pursue that are still not easy but probably more compatible with family life.

That's quite a way above the national average salary

Not worth it for people who have studied for 5 years plus extra postgrad and are making life or death decisions?

If you’ve just completed a masters in something totally different, how long have you really wanted to be a doctor for?