To change careers and become a doctor at 39?

[ValleyOfTheTramadols]

Just that really. I have a degree and a masters in humanities and history respectively but have always been interested in science and medicine as well. My masters specialised in medical history. I’ve spent a lot of time in hospital with my son recently and I have developed a strong urge/feeling/calling to retrain in medicine. I would have to sit A levels in two science subjects before applying to a medical course but I could do that in a year. Then with the six year medical degree and first foundation year I could be a ‘full’ doctor by the age of 47. Nearly 20 years or more left of a career by then. I only recently completed my masters so I’m used to intense study as an adult and I can afford it financially. But am I just deluded?

Have you considered Physician Associate?

I work in the NHS. Good luck !.

Info on access to medicine courses here. They do not expect you to have science A-levels.
www.medschools.ac.uk/media/2697/guidance-on-access-to-medicine-courses.pdf

As a 47 year old Hospital Consultant, I am looking to retire sooner rather than later. Working as a consultant for more than another 10 years is really unappealing, working as a trainee at this age would be even less so.

The training was tough enough in my 20s when I was single and child free. The idea of starting it now would fill me with horror.

morale amongst many NHS staff is very low and burn out high and rising. At least it is in my Trust.

Madness

To be blunt, I think you would be bonkers.

Most medical courses are 5 years in the UK, or 4 years if you do a post graduate course (and not all of them require specific A level grades or subjects), and after graduation there are two foundation years, not one.

There are lots of other healthcare related careers that could suit you though. What is it that you want to do? What appeals to you?

Have you any healthcare experience? The reality is potentially very different to what you are expecting: it was for me, though I am a nurse, not a doctor!

@MrsBison OP said completing first foundation year at 47, not 44. Plus specialty training 3-7 years on top, longer if doing it past-time. Even so, GPs don’t earn £100K, unless you’re a partner and this doesn’t happen quickly.

@2chooze as a similarly aged GP I could have written your post word for word. Burnout and exhaustion is rife just now - and I used to genuinely love my job.

Hehe @Kuachui @Dalalalada

so many ready to rain on your parade OP

If you really want to do it - go for it. I met a 41 year old lady when on a residential course with the OU, who had just got into medical school at Manchester.

She had teenage kids and worked as a nurse - so I guess knew something of what she was in for. Her determination was palpable. If you're not 110% sure about it - don't bother.

It isn't unrealistic at all, op. I helped a bf look into this a couple of years ago.

He eventually decided not to pursue because he couldn't financially sustain himself during training, but as another pp said if you can then it is very possible.

Just don't underestimate how much £ you'll need - study materials, petrol/public transport/food plus any exam fees pre and post uni or extra tuition to get you up to speed. Do a really intensive cost breakdown.

The other big thing for your application will be work experience which is difficult to get at the best of times. Think outside the box. Email a consultant or nurse you know and ask directly if you can't get through the hospital/ practice work experience application route.

Look at any volunteering roles remotely related to the medical fields.

Lots of YouTube videos of operations etc. Lots of documentaries on BBC and Channel 4 about life as a doctor.

Reach out to doctors and ask about their training experiences. The hours are long and anti social until you are established so you have to be sure you can do this without it affecting your family life too much. You'll need support.

There are less than a dozen unis that offer graduate schemes and fewer which admit students with non science backgrounds unless they do a foundation degree first. Make a table of what the various options are and what their admissions requirements are.

You might need to study intensively to pass the entrance exams, especially if it's been a while since you did them but there is specialised tuition support out there if you can afford it.

Research, research, research and good luck!

@MrsBison

Do it.

I changed career late and it was hard work. But absolutely worth it, never regretted it. My only regret is that it took me so long to do/start.

Just make sure you have enough money to cover the 5 years of study and living expenses. After that, you will be financially fine and surprised how quickly the salary increases as you train.

8-9 years post completion of MBBS, you should be on £100k annual earnings/salary (inc all benefits).

I am 8 years post qualification, earn £50k without on calls and have huge deductibles like £500 month pension, £300 a month student loan, my professional fees incl indeminity etc cost about £100 a month I have no problems with my salary but 13 years after I started my degree I’m at this point- these are more realistic figures.

‘Minimum’ time to independent practice (consultant or gp) would be 5 years after finishing med school if you choose GP track.
I thought GPs can go into GP practice pretty much after FY2, and are on quite good money (60K+) from the start?

The key phrase in that £100k is 'inc all benefits' - ie the pension contributions you aren't seeing. And it imagines you are fulltime which is becoming rare as so few can manage it without burnout.

And even so, most salaried GPs, which is most GPs are on nowhere near that anyway. Think less, a lot less.

Would doing a physician associate course appeal at all?

This thread has reminded me of something that has been puzzling me for a while. Why are Uni places/training places for Drs so limited? When so much points to there being a shortage of Drs??

Also a medic, like my job now but not really sure I’d choose to put myself through this again if I had the time again.
I probably would have done chemistry or pharmacy.
Lots of people in Heath care professions burning out all over the place, staff leaving in their droves, makes it even worse for those that are left. I know very few people who do a five day week because the length and intensity of shifts is so much you just couldn’t last.
My foundation years were ‘trial by fire’ in a failing hospital where we just ran around trying to keep the majority alive until morning…at times it was fun and I liked the team and at times it was pretty harrowing tbh.
I feel like now I’m in the latter stages of training things are getting better but you still have very little control over your own life- they will send you to whatever hospital they want, no matter the commute, you will be allocated shifts and have no choice over them.
More than ever consultants are ‘stepping down’ as they haven’t enough junior staff so even when you are at that stage you could find yourself hauled in - also gone are the days where they slept through the night at home- you’re likely to have management ringing you asking you to make their shitty decisions for them.

I love the patients and my profession…I wouldn’t do it otherwise..:but the days of it being a vocation are long gone. You have to look after yourself because no one else will. Your family will be sidelined.

Nope GPs do not go into GP practice after F2, they are skilled professionals who have to train as GPs which takes 3 years (longer if less than full time).

While training they are paid as trainees £35-38K (bearing in mind they are liking to be carrying £80K of debt)

Once qualified they have to find a job as a GP for which there is no national payscale - salaried GPs are paid less than partners, but partnership is currently unpopular due to the risks and burdens of taking on the business.

Another parade rainer here, sorry.

I imagine it's doable if you're one of those people who is an unstoppable force of nature. But in addition to all the points already mentioned, you will be switching to one of the most punishing, exhausting careers in existence, JUST as the menopause hits. Nobody knows how it will affect them and maybe you will sail through it, but if not, you will have to be positively superhuman to get through the junior doctor years.

Wouldn't be my choice, OP. You're 39 now, with a Masters, but having to go right back to science A-levels?

I'm sure the studying would be fine, but the junior years and post grad studying alongside working in hospitals and raising a family in your late 40s would be brutal. That's right at the time when many in the NHS are at height of career and looking to scale down. For a reason.

Do any nurse practioner or other allied healthcare roles appeal?

What was your plan after finishing your Masters?

@forinborin

‘Minimum’ time to independent practice (consultant or gp) would be 5 years after finishing med school if you choose GP track. I thought GPs can go into GP practice pretty much after FY2, and are on quite good money (60K+) from the start?

Nope you have to do a three year GPST training program including spending several thousand on professional exams and doing rotations in A&E etc.

getting into a GEM course (graduate entry) is VERY VERY competitive.

And it will cost you tons, as no loans for this as a second degree.

[quote LadyWithLapdog]@MrsBison OP said completing first foundation year at 47, not 44. Plus specialty training 3-7 years on top, longer if doing it past-time. Even so, GPs don’t earn £100K, unless you’re a partner and this doesn’t happen quickly.[/quote]
I know someone who made partner 9 years post medicine course. And GP's easily earn over £100k is they do a bit of locum.

Don’t listen to the naysayers and try it, it’s your life you will wait a few more years and then regret not doing it earlier. But before you start do think about this is this just on a whim or do you really want to be a doctor? If you want to be a doctor then your age doesn’t matter there are 80year old docs you know. Also be ready for disappointment because it’s quite hard to get into med school with ukcat and what not. But as I always say if you want it try it and not just saying this as a platitude I really believe if you want something strongly you should go for it and not regret it on your deathbed

I'm 38 and a medical specialist. I don't recommend you do this. You won't see your family much, the long hours are harder with age, and many older trainees find the back-to-bottom-rung of junior doctoring difficult to handle when they're used to being respected and listened to.

I recommend you talk to some doctors you know in real life about your desire to train. Preferably people who know you personally, but if there's someone you've met at the hospital that would talk it out over coffee that would be better than none.

If you really know what's involved and why you want to do it, that's great, but be aware of the sacrifices involved on the training path.

My husband retrained as a medic and qualified at age 29. He has a passion for it and would not do anything but being a junior in his 30s was really tough. It's hard with family life too and lots of moving around. There's no guarantee you can stay in your area.

Currently he is based in a region but moves posts every 4-6 months so there's long commutes on top of savage hours. You would be studying for expensive professional exams in your 'free time' post qualification as well as interviewing for training posts which are scarce in number compared to people applying and each round of interviews require about a months study. We manage as I have a well paid flexible job and sort the kids myself. It doesn't pay well (especially post 2016 contract change) considering the length of study, hours put in and commitment.

GP route is considered easier and less competitive but no one I know wants to be a full time GP as that is gruelling too. Physicians associate position seems a good deal although I think you need a medical/science bachelors to access the course. They basically have the same role as a graduate level junior dr but are paid more with less responsibility. There's no progression though.