AIBU to not know whether to stay abroad or leave?

[ricepolo]

Moved as a family to European country this summer. DC (5 and 9) are not settling. Miss their friends terribly: crying regularly for them. Not settling locally for many reasons, particularly language but also school day (international school so a distance away and they get back too late for any local activities eg swimming club). I’ve spent hours and hours and hours trying to find other activities for them but it’s not possible: they just don’t exist here. School is good on paper but not supporting them academically as we’d want really. Local schools aren’t an option since they don’t speak the language. Their lives seem very colour-free compared to what we had in England where life was full and rich.

DH has a job he very much enjoys here (the reason for moving) and would have to commute or find something new if we left. My work could be done anywhere, albeit with a bit of moving things around.

We honestly thought the life here would be wonderful and offer the children a great opportunity. But it feels like we’re trying to force square pegs into round holes.

What do we do? Wait it out and let the kids adjust? Move back? We couldn’t move until the end of this school year. I know it’s not been that long but I don’t want them to get used to being here in the same way you get used to eg someone dying (sorry if that’s a crass example-someone compared the process they’re going through to a bereavement so I can’t think of a better one): a “having to deal with it, so learning coping mechanisms in order to do so” sort of thing. I know moving abroad takes time to settle: we’ve done it twice before but before children so it’s different this time. It breaks my heart to see them so sad. I don’t know what to do.

I would have a look around at other areas to live. Find somewhere you like better with a better local school and good community. Your DH might have to commute slightly further, or you may have to adjust your accommodation plans slightly, but it seems like you might be a bit blinkered for possible options here. If you want your DH's work to be a central point, think how far away he is willing to commute and make that the centre point of the circle in which you can live. Then look at the options within that radius. Surely there must be more than one local school within that radius?

But yes, time is the main thing and you need to give it more time. Not all children just slide into life in another country.

Thanks for your help so far. DH and I have been wrestling with this issue over the weekend and we are tending towards putting them into a local school (ie in the foreign language). This would help them make local friends and have hobbies again. And would help us integrate lots more if they began to speak the language fluently. I would need to drop down to part time to be able to support this at the start but that’s ok.

I’d be grateful for your views on how soon we do this? Rip off the plaster and do it next term? Leave them for a bit to adjust to the idea, maybe start a few hobbies (if we can somehow pull them out of the international school early) and then move them maybe February half term? Or does that just make it harder for them to leave?

And would you involve them in discussions or just explain to them what’s happening? Ideas, experiences and advice welcome. Thanks.

The other school isn't working out so I would do it asap. Tell them why you're doing it, make it really positive and sound really exciting, tell them about all the activities they will be able to do.

I'd give it some time but keep in mind that it might still not work out. Some children are very sociable and just fit in wherever they are put and pick things up very quickly. For others it just doesn't work, they don't really want to be there and it all just seems like a difficult struggle. The sooner you do it though the sooner you will know if it's going to work. I'd give it a year and then seriously think about moving home if they are still miserable.

I think you need to look for a school you're really happy with. Don't leave them in the international school if you're not happy with it; equally, don't put them into your closest "local" school if it has a bad reputation (though maybe visit first to check for yourselves?). Start your search for the right school for your family and base yourselves around that if you can. If the children are in a good school that supports them they are likely to settle much more quickly and make friends more easily.

Op I think you're really disadvantaging them by not moving to the local school. You really underestimate how quickly they learn. Even children with Sen. Once they have local friends their life will feel much fuller.

Sorry just seen your update. Move as soon as you can tbh. If they're in the local school by Jan/Feb, they will he able to have a lovely summer with new friends where their language skills will improve even more. If its really still awful by the end of summer 2022, you can look at the situation again.

Dependent on where you are, I'd keep them in the international school. IB isn't 'woolly', and will give them more options when they complete.

I'm an ex expat kid and did IB.

Sounds like you've all got a bit of cold feet and homesickness which is natural, it'll pass.

I think the local school is definitely the better option in terms of integrating but you've said you're planning to move back...when would that be? It seems a bit unfair to your kids to keep uprooting them...whether they continue with the IB or go into the local state school system, it will be very different to the British system and it would be quite hard to adjust back.

I live in another European country and moved here as an adult (age 20) I picked up the language within months and am fluent enough that I usually get mistaken for a native and people are shocked to discover I'm actually British. I think you're underestimating your 9 year old! Some languages are harder than others but with full integration can be picked up. I'm in Italy if it makes any difference.

Thank you all. I think we have been a bit too cautious with them and they would most likely fly once they get settled.

We have no plans to return. DH’s job is open ended and my contract is 5yrs. We moved with the intention of staying. I don’t want to return to the UK…. but my children come first: we need them happy and fulfilled.

No imminent plans that should say. Can’t see us growing old here but no return ticket booked.

IB isn't 'woolly', and will give them more options when they complete.

Did you do the primary IB curriculum though or just secondary? Secondary I agree is rigorous and great for academic all rounders, and my DC did early years, but I'm not a fan of PYP (primary) - I think the UK national curriculum grounds the basics (maths in particular) much better. But, I think the wider issue is how it's interpreted/ implemented. We have several international and local private schools here who claim to be teaching PYP but the approaches are radically different, from very child led to really not child led whatsoever.

Which country? It make a difference to what advice is given. I moved with my kids to several different (very different) countries. I believe that a lot of it is down to luck. Things like whether your kids happen to find good friends in their class or not is more important that the school culture etc.
Putting kids in a foreign language school can go well but can go terribly. Some schools are set up for it and others don’t. Some education systems overseas are NOTHING like they are in the UK. It’s too simplistic to say that the OP should change her kids school.

Germany

@Insert1x20p

IB isn't 'woolly', and will give them more options when they complete.

Did you do the primary IB curriculum though or just secondary? Secondary I agree is rigorous and great for academic all rounders, and my DC did early years, but I'm not a fan of PYP (primary) - I think the UK national curriculum grounds the basics (maths in particular) much better. But, I think the wider issue is how it's interpreted/ implemented. We have several international and local private schools here who claim to be teaching PYP but the approaches are radically different, from very child led to really not child led whatsoever.

Secondary- didn't realise there was a primary .

I would either move close to the school or put the kids in the local school. Why shouldn't your husband commute? Your children are commuting and it's making them suffer.

As I said above a main reason we moved here was for more family time. If DH has to commute more, then that is taken away from us, so it defeats the whole object. We need a solution for everyone.

If you are planning to stay I wouldn't think twice about putting them in a German school. Living in a country where you don't speak the language is enormously isolating and even quite intimidating. They should pick up the language in no time if they go to the local school. They say kids up to 10 often learn the new language without a noticeable foreign accent and basically sound native.

I work with EAL children, and many start with zero english and are fluent within about six months. I would move them locally.

How long have you given it? It takes 2-3 years to settle in a new place in my experience, I've moved quite a lot

My kids weren't happy for the first 6 months or so then 3 years later when we were moving again they didn't want to leave!

Local schools in and around the big cities will be very used to dealing with children of immigrants who don't speak the language. Many of them have a significant amount of forgein children whose parents come to Germany to work low skilled jobs and their only choice is to use the local schools.

Putting the kids in the local school will give them an advantage if they later decide to stay on and stuy or work in Germany as they will have a better understanding of the German mentality and the German bureaucracy.

I think you really need to think about whether or not Germany is the right place for your family. I have found that life in Germany can be pretty segregated along the lines of country of origin and a lot of people only really form strong friendships with thos from similar areas. I think it might be a struggle for you and your husband to make friends outsode of the immigrant community and as you have mentioned that you would like to pull away from the international environment I am not sure you will find what you are looking for elsewhere.

As a former ESOL teacher, I’d agree with previous posters about the five year old picking up the local language easily. I’d be much more concerned with the 9 year old.
They may well pick up the spoken language fairly quickly but it is incredibly difficult for children to learn a second language to an academic level which enables them to achieve their full potential. If you imagine that it took a year to learn enough of the language to fully access the lessons, that’s a year of not really understanding what’s being taught.
It wouldn’t be impossible and if they’re very bright you might not notice any set back of course.
I personally wouldn’t want my child to struggle unnecessarily.
You know them much better than us though. Are they the type to pick things up quickly?

@AllTheUsernamesAreAlreadyTaken

As a former ESOL teacher, I’d agree with previous posters about the five year old picking up the local language easily. I’d be much more concerned with the 9 year old. They may well pick up the spoken language fairly quickly but it is incredibly difficult for children to learn a second language to an academic level which enables them to achieve their full potential. If you imagine that it took a year to learn enough of the language to fully access the lessons, that’s a year of not really understanding what’s being taught. It wouldn’t be impossible and if they’re very bright you might not notice any set back of course. I personally wouldn’t want my child to struggle unnecessarily. You know them much better than us though. Are they the type to pick things up quickly?

Not at nine! A child of thirteen might struggle but nine is still very young. I have never encountered a kid who struggled at that age. And the longer they leave it, the harder it's going to be, so instead of a nine-year-old who had a difficult first few months in a German school before becoming fluent, they'll have a teenager who barely speaks the local language and is restricted to English-speaking expats as friends.

@megustalacerveza
I’ve known plenty struggle.

We don’t know the kid. It’s a huge assumption to say “Go for it. It’ll be fine” about a kid we’ve never met when the effects could be very detrimental for them.

[quote AllTheUsernamesAreAlreadyTaken]@megustalacerveza
I’ve known plenty struggle.

We don’t know the kid. It’s a huge assumption to say “Go for it. It’ll be fine” about a kid we’ve never met when the effects could be very detrimental for them.[/quote]
You've known plenty of kids struggle to learn the language, at nine, with full immersion? In my experience, that's very unusual unless the kid has SEN, and OP hasn't mentioned that.

No, we don't know the kid, but growing up in a country where you don't speak the local language and are essentially segregated is awful. I can't think of any scenario where that would be the better option. Maybe returning to the UK would be best if they really dislike it there, but right now they're getting the worst of both worlds - they're living in a foreign country but with none of the benefits of learning another language fluently, doing activities or making local friends.

It would be one thing if they were army kids or moving from international school to international school every couple of years because parents are diplomats or something, living in a permanent expat bubble, but that's not the case.