To think pregnant women should get the vaccine

[HopefulRose]

This is controversial but had a lively debate with a family member about this today. I’m currently pregnant and double jabbed and hopeful I can get my booster soon. I’ve been quite surprised and tbh annoyed at the number of pregnant women refusing to get the vaccine.

Pregnant women who are unvaccinated end up getting much more sick from Covid than those who have the vaccines. And those who are getting ill end up taking up resources in hospitals which causes a knock on effect to the care of other pregnant women who are vaccinated. A friend recently was supposed to have a home birth but had to go into hospital because there weren’t enough midwives due to this very problem.

Perhaps it’s a failure on the government/ DHSC’s behalf for not communicating this strongly enough. I understand if there are genuine concerns but most of the people I’ve spoken to who don’t want the vaccine don’t appear to be interested in the medical or logical arguments and their decisions come from ‘feeling’ (or Facebook) rather than reasoning.

I’ve just told you again I don’t voice my opinion to them. But it is a health professionals job to state the facts.
And this is a forum about opinions. And I am allowed one. And my profession has given me experience and perspective that shapes it. So of course it is relevant. If you don't want to hear other peoples opinions perhaps don’t go on a forum.

I've had this conversation with a couple of family members who are pregnant (and unvaccinated) they are both having there first and don't want to do anything to "risk" the pregnancy. I am not pregnant but am double vaxxed but would happily have the booster if I got pregnant, but I feel my responsibility is to my existing DC and not the unborn baby and I wouldn't want to risk getting severely ill/dying if I caught covid at a late stage. Each to their own, they are worried about there unborn baby, whereas I would be thinking more about myself and the impact of me not being here!

Personally I would never have the vaccination whilst pregnant because there's no long term data on effects on the baby.

what long term effects of any other have there ben that weren't found in the first 2 months? and why would this vaccine differ from other vaccines?

Pinkstegosaurus I can totally understand that.
And this has been a changing and evolving situation. But right now what I am seeing is extremely frustrated Drs having to deal with pregnant patients on ITU. Which is why it is a health professionals job to tell people what the current situation is in the hopes that it might change a few peoples minds.

The official stance is that the vaccine is safe. At the same time, it seems that privately and quietly a lot of hcp are advising women to be cautious of it. It makes you wonder what they are observing irl that makes them take that view. It also seems that educated, professional opinions are only worth something when they adhere to the official stance

Don't think it's anyone else's business. Anyone not getting the vaccine is obviously doing it as they are worried, so no reason to judge. It is their body.

I have had covid in pregnancy already and it was more mild than a common cold. Because I got it, I've been told by various health care professionals that I don't need to get the vaccine in pregnancy since I have antibodies now.

My body. My baby. My choice.
I certainly won’t be rushing out to get a vaccine which has no long term health data to make others feel better.

YABU to think everyone should be like you.

You’ve made your choice, they’ve made theirs.

can I ask, what long term data are people looking for? what is it that your waiting to see?

The bit I don't understand is that while it's true that there obviously can't be any published studies yet about the potential long term effects of the vaccine to unborn babies - there also can't be any studies yet about the long term effects to unborn babies if the mother catches Covid in the first or second trimester either and we know the vaccine reduces the chances of that.

AND we do know about the definite/proven risks to Mum and baby if Mum gets Covid in her third trimester. So it's now known risk/versus potential risk scenario .

So while I completely understand pregnant women who initially refused the vaccine due to the mixed messages from the medical profession (as I almost did myself), why are there apparently so many now unvaccinated in the labour wards when the message of "get vaccinated for your and your baby's safety" seems to have been consistent from RCOG since about July? (apparently because of the data that's come the US, where pregnant women were vaccinated much earlier and larger numbers have now given birth with no known issues).

As someone in their third trimester, it really worries me. It's starting to feel a bit like some of us (the fully vaccinated pregnant women) are the guinea pigs so that other's don't have to make that difficult decision but will (at least according to the scary news stories) possibly take up more of the midwives resources. Going to give birth for the first time is terrifying enough without the concern that midwives are now even more overworked because most of the other pregnant women around me aren't vaccinated .

My SIL is 20wks pregnant and is from another European country. She had jab 1 before pregnancy but was advised in home country not to have 2nd in pregnancy, but U.K. heavily advised her to. She only had it for ease of travel but she was worried. I would definitely be having it

Midwives are overworked and under resourced and have been long before covid. Other women aren't responsible for that and shouldn't get blamed for govt lack of investment because they choose not to get a fax while pregnant.
Pregnant women are stuck between a rock and a hard place and all are just trying to do their best for their babies, even if they don't agree on what 'best' is.

I think yabvu for trying to force your views on other people.

So there have been 1500 UK yellow card reports of deaths attributed to the vaccine, actual coroners reports are far far lower. But let’s not kid ourselves it’s risk free

@fiftiesmum

Just wondering how many of you will drive during pregnancy or even cross the road both of which are pretty risky things to do.

Most people currently in hospital seriously ill with covid are unvaccinated and come from a smaller subpopulation of 5m people compared with the few sick people from a population of 45million who are vaccinated.

The issues are with 3 trimester mothers-to-be they can't be put on their front, love So when you have a patient whose organs are suppressed,can't get air in because lungs compromised What's your solution

I think the media didn't help. The reason it wasn't originally recommended in the UK is because the UK has very strict drug approval laws and trial regs which pregnant women cannot participate in.

The US did allow it based on the laboratory trials which showed no issues. The UK then examined a lot of data from the US including births prior to approval.
They weren't the best at communicating this so the media led into the fear of pregnant women.
Breastfeeding was actually examined by one of the UKs top pharmacologists who looked at every composition and all the data before producing a summary and can be found on the breastfeeding drug network pages which also lists lots of medicine assessments.

It should be their choice but also like anything related to pregnancy everyone feels their right to put their tuppence in which does not help.

Women should discuss it through with medical professionals and use recognised sources to reach a judgement. Unfortunately social media (including MN) hasn't helped as you get some random person with no scientific training who hasn't read any studies into it or the research saying its risky etc.

Let women make up their own minds but with factual information.

It's starting to feel a bit like some of us (the fully vaccinated pregnant women) are the guinea pigs so that other's don't have to make that difficult decision

Pregnant women who've decided not to be vaccinated have had to make exactly the same difficult decision that you did.

They just chose differently to you, as is their right. You know, bodily autonomy and all that.

They owe you nothing just as you owe them nothing.

None of your business OP.

I gave up coffee, alcohol etc. Seemed natural to me to not want to start introducing new chemicals to my body while he was developing.

At seven months, I had the jab but it was my choice to delay and nothing to do with you.

Yabu.

I’ve had both and my booster but there is absolutely no way I’d get it whilst pregnant or any vaccine whilst pregnant for that matter.

There is no way to tell if it’s safe for an unborn child no way at all.

Having had Covid before pregnancy when unvaccinated and being completely floored by it made me very happy to get my second jab whilst pregnant. I can't how hard it must be to have a bad case of it in third trimester. I think anyone not getting vaccinated who is pregnant is taking a huge gamble, particularly with how prevalent Covid is over the last few months - but ultimately it is their choice. I feel lucky in a way to have had Covid and known how bad it was for me, which made choosing the vaccine really easy.

@SingItToWinIt

It's starting to feel a bit like some of us (the fully vaccinated pregnant women) are the guinea pigs so that other's don't have to make that difficult decision

Pregnant women who've decided not to be vaccinated have had to make exactly the same difficult decision that you did.

They just chose differently to you, as is their right. You know, bodily autonomy and all that.

They owe you nothing just as you owe them nothing.

I never said it wasn't their right? I completely believe in bodily autonomy and can't believe for example, that Austria are trying to make vaccines mandatory. But while nobody does "owe each other anything", that just seems a really sad way to live to me . I'm not saying it was the only reason I made my decision (reading the scientific studies linked on other threads was the primary one), but the thought of being indirectly responsible for passing the virus onto someone perhaps even more vulnerable, when there was something else I could do to perhaps help stop it (even if in only a minor way, on top of the usual mask wearing, social distancing etc) was a factor I considered.

I'm in no way angry with other pregnant women for making a different decision (I save that anger for the government, who are majorly responsible for the midwife shortage in the first place) but I do wonder how many people also consider this, when they make the decision not to get vaccinated.

Thing is no medical tests are allowed on pregnant women
So the data we do have is anecdotal from women who had the vaccine whilst pregnant having been told it’s safe
We simply don’t know the long term effects on the baby or mother - it’s unknowable

Having said that it’s likely to be safe because there is collecting of data in real time ( the yellow card thing)

But i don’t blame women for waiting either
I would

But each to their own

As long as pregnant woman realise the risks of not having the vaccine, which are not anecdotal. With 1 in 5 pg woman with covid19 in critical care, stillbirth risk, c section risk, pre eclampsia, and maternal death, all these risks are real and very much higher - especially after 30 weeks of pregnancy with compromised lungs due to pregnancy.

So much is spoken about unknown risks whilst the known risks are not mentioned

@ivykaty44
Do you have the sources for your stats?