To think pregnant women should get the vaccine

[HopefulRose]

This is controversial but had a lively debate with a family member about this today. I’m currently pregnant and double jabbed and hopeful I can get my booster soon. I’ve been quite surprised and tbh annoyed at the number of pregnant women refusing to get the vaccine.

Pregnant women who are unvaccinated end up getting much more sick from Covid than those who have the vaccines. And those who are getting ill end up taking up resources in hospitals which causes a knock on effect to the care of other pregnant women who are vaccinated. A friend recently was supposed to have a home birth but had to go into hospital because there weren’t enough midwives due to this very problem.

Perhaps it’s a failure on the government/ DHSC’s behalf for not communicating this strongly enough. I understand if there are genuine concerns but most of the people I’ve spoken to who don’t want the vaccine don’t appear to be interested in the medical or logical arguments and their decisions come from ‘feeling’ (or Facebook) rather than reasoning.

Yes, well, I was just saying Thalidomide was 60 years ago, not recent...

That's a very small trial. I think the potential effects of getting Covid while pregnant has been 'rigorously tested' in the real world though, and is not something I would want to experience.

Also, out in the real world, it says here as of August 21, that over 200,000 pregnant women have received an mRNA vaccine (Pfizer or Moderna), without any safety concerns.

www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/the-covid19-vaccine-and-pregnancy-what-you-need-to-know

Women getting pregnant now should already have been vaccinated (at least once). Those who aren’t probably have some long standing issues with hesitancy. I don’t think your well meaning thread will help with that.

The figures on pregnant women in hospital/icu given by Chris Whitty should be enough to persuade a reasonable woman to get vaccinated-235 pregnant women in ICU, 232 unvaccinated. What a totally unnecessary risk to take, especially given that now more time has passed even more data is available showing the vaccine is safe for both mother and baby.

I don’t think it is anything t do with government / official messaging. I am not pregnant, do not know anybody that is pregnant or considering pregnancy. And without needing to look anything up, the messaging I have seen is that pregnant women should get vaccinated. So if people choose not to, it is probably because they have chosen not to despite the messaging.

@Divorced2kids

Its interesting as a friend of mine is 8 months pregnant. She had her first jab which was AZ and they refused to give her a second in early pregnancy and she keeps being advised to wait by nurses and midwives

Yes because pregnant women are already prone to clots. If you’re pregnant in the UK, you will only be offered Moderna or Pfizer. And I agree with OP, there’s data showing pretty bad outcomes for pregnant women with symptomatic covid, mainly in third trimester

You're right. The risks to the baby are too high

The figures on pregnant women in hospital/icu given by Chris Whitty should be enough to persuade a reasonable woman to get vaccinated-235 pregnant women in ICU, 232 unvaccinated. What a totally unnecessary risk to take, especially given that now more time has passed even more data is available showing the vaccine is safe for both mother and baby.

I agree. This is the voice of reason. Fuck everyone having an opinion. This is the only sound conclusion, given what's going on for some pregnant women and their babies in ICU. I've had a bit of personal involvement and it was heartbreakingly difficult for the family involved. Get the vaccine and spare yourself.

I agree. I'm due any day now and have had both vaccines while pregnant, the 2nd only in September. The risks of not having the vaccine far outweigh the potential risks of having it imo. I think some women are too quick to throw out that they don't know the long term effects on baby but that can be said about lots of things, even how your birth goes can have major effects on baby yet they're still going to have babies.
However, I also think that pregnant women have been let down and misinformed when it comes to the vaccine and so many are still wary.

The vaccine wasn’t available when I was pregnant but I did have it while breastfeeding. When I told the vaccine centre staff I was breastfeeding, they frowned, went to talk to the on-site doctor, she came and said ‘I suppose if you are here you have done your own research and want the vaccine’ - I said yes but it’s actually the Nhs advice that I get it, so it’s odd that it’s causing this much of an issue… (my friend had a similar experience getting vaccinated while pregnant - she actually got turned away the first time despite the advice at the time supporting vaccination during pregnancy)

I think the wildly inconsistent messages have not helped public opinion, and this is a big failure on their part because naturally most people get their health advice from the NHS and the media rather than reading scientific papers.

I agree covid in the third trimester can be devastating and therefore Moderna or Pfizer being offered to pregnant women is so important

But I understand concerns and it does stem from such confused messaging. Yes, the government are now advising to get the vaccine but often midwives and HCP themselves are breeding this uncertainty.

I have underlying health conditions which mean I had the first two doses relatively early and was told I should have the boosters late second trimester. I am under consultant care and had a thorough conversation with her about why this was absolutely necessary for me.

When it came to me actually having it, I was asked a lot of questions, told to wait so someone could check that they were able to give it to me 'in my condition' and then a doctor had to come and have a chat with me and administer it rather than a nurse. If I wasn't so aware of the health implications for me not having it, this would have raised enough questions for me to walk away and not have it.

My friend is in her first trimester, had AZ originally and is also due the booster and eligible because of her job. Her midwife told her she would wait to have it after the pregnancy if it were her as 'she doesn't feel there's enough evidence of mixing and matching vaccines let alone the vulnerability of being pregnant'.

So the government can campaign all they like but the advice at source is mixed and confusing

Agree with you. Had both my originals before I got pregnant and my booster St 26 weeks. People saying they don't know the long term effects on baby also don't know the long term effects of covid on the baby either. I'd rather take my risks with a vaccine thst whilst new in itself is based on technoledgy that's been around a long time than a novel virus.

However we do know the short term implications of covid with placental disintegration, late term still births and blood clots. Not to mention feeling like shit and not being able to take anything for it.

As for those quoting thamolihide. It was never tested on pregnant women before being rolled out. It was 60 years ago and testing and safety regulations have been significantly improved in this area. 60 years in medicine is a very very long time. And vaccines which are given sporadically at best and leave your system within a couple of days are very different from drugs thst you take every day and build up in your system over time.

But sadly the message at the start was very confusing and very mixed from the govt and the fact they're not included in the vulnerable groups for the booster is rediculous. The messaging is very confusing for women who want to protect their child and want to know how.

YANBU OP. I had my second dose in my first trimester - it's my first/only baby after 3 years of IVF and at 40 and as a Solo Mum with limited finances, this is probably my only chance to conceive. I was terrified and still am - especially as when I said I was pregnant, they insisted the Manager/head nurse came out and spoke to me to make sure this was "what I really wanted" as there wasn't a lot of data in pregnancy yet.

Finding out everything looked normal on the 12 and 20 week scans was the biggest relief of my life. But I'd seen stories that the vaccine could help reduce your chances of passing the virus on as well as protecting yourself and baby. I'd feel gutted if I caught Covid and unknowingly passed the virus onto someone even more vulnerable, when there was something else apart from social distancing/mask wearing that I could do to help prevent that.

I wish people would think of others too - I do understand the vaccine only reduces the chances of catching/being seriously ill with the virus (and doesn't stop it totally) but the stories in the press now coming out of maternity wards beginning to be overwhelmed with unvaccinated Covid positive women in labour and the midwives being unable to cope, is making me even more nervous about giving birth .

So I'll be getting my booster as soon as I'm eligible, despite my nerves.

I had my baby in July I was originally told not to get it so I didn't however I do know now how incredibly lucky I am to have not caught COVID in my 3rd trimester I unfortunately witnessed first hand what happens when you get COVID in the third trimester and the effect of has on you and the baby.

I had the jab as soon as I had the baby he was a week old I breast fed so he will get the antibodies from it aswell.

I don’t think the messaging was necessarily avoidable in all cases. As time has gone on, more data on safety has been collected, which is more reassuring. I think what swung it for me was the higher rate of stillbirth and baby and mum going to icu if contracting covid near delivery time (received 2nd vax at the start of 3rd trimester). I think the rcog have given good advice, which they have updated over the course of things (this sheet was updated in oct, but they may release subsequent ones eg after omicron):

www.rcog.org.uk/globalassets/documents/guidelines/2021-02-24-combined-info-sheet-and-decision-aid.pdf

I’ve discussed it at various points with my midwife, GP, obstetrician and haematologist. Which I have found helpful - especially when dealing with emerging evidence and changing circumstances.

But sadly the message at the start was very confusing and very mixed from the govt and the fact they're not included in the vulnerable groups for the booster is ridiculous. The messaging is very confusing for women who want to protect their child and want to know how.

All of this. For women in their third trimester now, the advice has gone from “no safety data, don’t have it” to “we have no reason to think it’s unsafe but it’s YOUR CHOICE (and risk)” to “pregnant women must get it, look at all these silly irresponsible women taking up ICU beds & risking their baby’s life because they didn’t follow our advice” in quite a short period of time. No wonder women are confused during one of the most anxious periods of their life.

Whitty is currently banging on about pregnant women in the ICU yet pregnant women aren’t included in the booster program as we need the vaccine but apparently not THAT much

I was double jabbed before falling pregnant & will have my booster when offered, but the Government only has itself to blame for the current situation with pregnancy and Covid. They completely cocked up the messaging.

I'm not sure it helps that on all 4 of my visits for a vaccine so far (initially refused my second dose due to health concerns) I've been asked if I could be pregnant, if I'm on blood thinning medication and if I'm feeling unwell. It subtly suggests that if you say yes to any of these three (including pregnancy) then maybe you shouldn't be having it.

Had my second dose when I was around 8 weeks. Hoping I’ll be offered a booster towards the end of pregnancy.

I think people are nuts for not getting it. Saw someone on tiktok yesterday congratulating people for not getting it yet she was full of filler and apparently gos for vitamin injections.
🙄

@Flev they need to know so it can be recorded.

I’m double vaxxed and my gp and midwifes was always very pro. A friend of mine in a different area got loads of conflicting advice from healthcare workers and didn’t get hers

Yanbu, I'm due baby at the end of Jan and my booster would be due on 1st Feb (if they open it up to under 40s/add pregnant women to the vulnerable group). I'm really hoping they shorten it to five months so I can my booster early Jan and be well covered for labour.

I'm on the fence here. Normally vvvv pro vaccine and had all mine but friend was pregnant at had huge discussion with us mums as unsure what was safer. She decided to wait till she had baby and first thing after giving birth had her first vaccine. I think in this case it's up to the pregnant woman to decide in afraid re risks. I'm not pregnant but I've no idea which way I'd go as I do treat patients whos mums took thylamide for anti sickness. I understand both sides

Pregnant women have it drummed into them that certain foods are dangerous and are reluctant to even take a paracetamol. Of course they are nervous about having a vaccine with no long term data re safety.
And if it did emerge later that there were negative consequences for some women, do you trust that we would be told or allowed to become collateral damage for the greater good? Lots of women had disturbed periods after their jab which was an unknown side effect at vaccine launch. You are asking women to put a lot of trust into a vaccine where information is still emerging. Maybe it will turn out that it's safer at a specific stage of the pregnancy than another, we just don't know yet. I wouldn't condemn a pregnant woman for not wanting to be a Guinea pig. Individuals can choose to isolate as much as possible and minimise their risk and get jabbed after the birth.

Normally vvvv pro vaccine and had all mine but friend was pregnant at had huge discussion with us mums as unsure what was safer.

It’s a shame she wasn’t having that discussion with a heath care professional. It’s absolutely clear what’s safer now.

Saying that, it sounds like there are some rogue midwives out there embarrassing themselves and their profession by advising pregnant women not to get vaccinated.

It really should be a moot point as the vaccination programme has been going long enough for most women to be double vaccinated by now.

Or we could give pregnant women the facts. All of them. About a generally thought to be safe, but extremely new vaccine and let them make their own informed choice.

Pregnant woman are women first. Not just a walking womb hosting a fetus.

@SingItToWinIt

You can think whatever you like. You're not unreasonable for having your own feelings on the matter.

Personally I would never have the vaccination whilst pregnant because there's no long term data on effects on the baby.

Exactly this

Some hcp have doubts - they are not universally agreed that this is a wholly good idea