To think ds is good at and loves the wrong stuff - i.e not STEM?

[coffeerevelsrock]

He's in Y10 and very focussed and ambitious, but without a clear idea of a specific career he would like to pursue. He's already thinking about A levels as applications would need to be in this time next year, and when asked, I've said take the subjects you like best/are good at. These would be English, history (his passion), drama and MFL. His targets are all 8s and in his assessments this term he's got mainly 8s with a couple of 7s and a 9. Obviously I'm not bragging as this is completely relevant to the thread.

Although he's doing well all round, and always has, English and humanities come to him naturally and are his passion. I teach English Lit A level and he will read a book or watch a play and just say things it can take me a lot of effort to get some pretty able students to understand. He thinks, and it seems likely, that he is far more likely to get better grades in these subjects if he takes them at A level. He's determined to take French assuming it keeps going well at GCSE as well.

My instinct is to say take the ones you like, which would be lit, history, French and drama as a fourth that he might not complete necessarily. But now he is telling me about the wealth of statistics he has found about the poor pay and limited opportunities history and English graduates can look forward to. He is thinking he needs to head towards STEM subjects but isn't particularly enthused at the prospect. He's been considering law as a career, but has done some research on that which has given him the impression that it is very difficult to get an interesting career in which has further pushed him towards STEM.

Any words of wisdom from the knowledgeable people on here would be much appreciated! I certainly don't want to believe that arts and humanities degrees are pointless.

O

If I were a very intelligent young person today I wouldn't be looking to go to university at all, not to do a humanities degree. I'd look to get an apprenticeship or a job in an industry I was interested in, maybe try a few different things, and look for opportunities to build a career that way. Unless there is a specific profession he wants to get into which requires a degree, it's not worth it. Even then, an employer might put him through a degree at a later date if it's needed.

I think the days of uni being the best route into a good career are rapidly going, and many employers are way more interested in people who have experience/common sense/entrepreneurial qualities than in people with a degree. Not to mention that academic inflation and the fact that students are now consumers who can't be allowed to fail have rendered degrees less valuable than ever. I think the really smart young people are getting ahead of this now.

I did well well (A/A*) across all my gcses but much preferred humanities (and was better at them). I decided to take science subjects at A level, thinking they would give me better prospects. I still did well but struggled and did not enjoy it. Then ended up doing a humanities degree anyway. I must admit I don't have an amazing salary but I think that is more to do with the sector I went for plus taking a bit career hit when I had kids. I think he should definitely do the subjects that he is most interested in and play to his natural stengths

Most graduate schemes dont need specific subjects but History from a good university would put you in good standing. If he wants to go for high wages then many of my year group joined accountancy, law or consultancy graduate schemes with history degrees. A lot are also doing well in corporate or public sector management- civil service, local goverment, NHS, big tech firms or retail head office roles.
The surprising thing i have found is how few do anything history related at all- I can only think of 1 teacher and a couple of academics (and I dont think that a long term thing for either of them).

I did STEM A-levels, bombed out of them all except chemistry half way through lower 6 because I wasn’t good enough at Maths.

I then did a quick pivot to languages partly at school and partly at the local FE college and caught up.

I did a language degree and now work in STEM earning a pretty decent salary.

I would suggest he gets the very best marks he can at the very best university he can get into. Husband Eng Lit, I did history, combined income c. £500k. - both did law conversions and in very interesting fields. No special hand ups by way of contacts or internships - just bloody good grades from good universities which opened doors for us. I’ve only mentioned salaries as it seems to be an important factor to weigh in if he’s feeling disheartened.

The point of which was at post 16 study you should do what you love, you can head in all sorts of directions from Uni regardless of what you study.

I'm an HE careers advisor. The reality is that STEM subjects open up some better paid options which account for the statistics showing they're better paid.

They don't guarantee high pay. If he studies STEM then goes for a high paying job that will only employ STEM candidates (pharma or some engineering/tech roles for example) then he will earn more than arts friends of his who go for work in their specialist field- e.g. heritage/museums which are traditionally badly paid. But not every STEM candidate can get those top paying jobs. There's plenty of people in tech who aren't high fliers and aren't getting paid top salaries

And I agree with PP it's harder to stick at and do well if he's studying things he doesn't enjoy. That's going to make it harder to get those very competitive jobs.

If he wants to work in many high paying jobs: banking, consultancy, law etc (I know he's not keen on law!) he can do that with any good degree, arts or science, and he will be paid exactly the same as all the other entrants.

Get him to look at specific jobs that might interest him, not just the overall statistics.

For God's sake let him follow his passions - don't force a square peg in a round hole

Boris Johnson’s degree was in bloody Classics, FFS, and he became Prime Minister so humanities degrees are far from pointless. Almost everyone in politics, government & the national media studied English, History, PPE etc.

This is so depressing & is a national picture. I teach MFL & it's great he wants to do that combination. Really good range of skills.

He could go into all sorts - law, banking, international relations, journalism.

Encourage him to do what he's good at and enjoys.

My three children all did these sorts of subjects at A level.
One has their own very successful business, one is a brilliant teacher and one an award winning writer.

When we stop thinking of these subjects as important, civilisation is doomed!

A business degree? That is what I did and 10 years post grad with on £55k.
Nice and generic and gives you the option to specialise if you wish (Commercial/ Procurement/ Sales/ Marketing/ Finance)

I did a History and English and everyone said 'oh, so you're going to be a teacher?' to me. I had no idea what I was going to do at the end of it but I knew I wasn't interested in teaching - I've not got the patience. I fell into a career in fundraising at international development charities and I loved it. I'd probably be earning around £50-£60k if I was still doing that, but retrained after the kids and now do something I love that fits around home life better- international development can demand a lot of travel which is wonderful but a hard juggle! Husband also did a History degree and ended up in IT, he earns about £90k. Art degrees are fantastic stepping stones to a huge variety of careers x

I think it's always best to focus on your strengths.

@coffeerevelsrock

He's in Y10 and very focussed and ambitious, but without a clear idea of a specific career he would like to pursue. He's already thinking about A levels as applications would need to be in this time next year, and when asked, I've said take the subjects you like best/are good at. These would be English, history (his passion), drama and MFL. His targets are all 8s and in his assessments this term he's got mainly 8s with a couple of 7s and a 9. Obviously I'm not bragging as this is completely relevant to the thread.

Although he's doing well all round, and always has, English and humanities come to him naturally and are his passion. I teach English Lit A level and he will read a book or watch a play and just say things it can take me a lot of effort to get some pretty able students to understand. He thinks, and it seems likely, that he is far more likely to get better grades in these subjects if he takes them at A level. He's determined to take French assuming it keeps going well at GCSE as well.

My instinct is to say take the ones you like, which would be lit, history, French and drama as a fourth that he might not complete necessarily. But now he is telling me about the wealth of statistics he has found about the poor pay and limited opportunities history and English graduates can look forward to. He is thinking he needs to head towards STEM subjects but isn't particularly enthused at the prospect. He's been considering law as a career, but has done some research on that which has given him the impression that it is very difficult to get an interesting career in which has further pushed him towards STEM.

Any words of wisdom from the knowledgeable people on here would be much appreciated! I certainly don't want to believe that arts and humanities degrees are pointless.

O

Every history graduate I know, and I know many strangely enough, has ended up in law, investment banking, academia or on some kind of economics / research track in the civil service. But he needs to apply to the right universities to stand out.

My cousin studies Spanish, History and Classics and has his own publishing business and makes a 6 figure salary. DS did Spanish, Maths and History and is heading towards corporate law - again ver good salary...... Another cousin did Maths at Oxford and is a maths teacher at the local school and hates it, another qualified as a Dr but now works as a gardener. It's really all to play out and no forgone conclusions.....

I was hugely into English, drama, and history as a teenager and went on to do a degree in English and history. When I graduated I discovered I wasn't really interested in a lot of the jobs that lead to so I took my arts degree and used it to get on a graduate entry medicine course. Several of my friends used theirs to go into accountancy or law conversion courses. My life ended up taking a few weird turns and instead of becoming a doctor I now work as a Web developer. A degree in the arts can take you lots of places and doesn't rule out a future career in STEM.

If I were a very intelligent young person today I wouldn't be looking to go to university at all, not to do a humanities degree. I'd look to get an apprenticeship or a job in an industry I was interested in, maybe try a few different things, and look for opportunities to build a career that way. Unless there is a specific profession he wants to get into which requires a degree, it's not worth it. Even then, an employer might put him through a degree at a later date if it's needed.

Very sensible. There is far too much emphasis on degrees and it's all nonsense. What is the point of a history degree and then going into banking etc.? People used to get a job, on the bottom rung of the ladder, and work their way up. All the CEOs in my last workplace arrived there that way. Apprenticeships are great, and at least you earn while you learn and don't start out with a huge debt. The number of people going to university these days only cheapens degrees.

My friends daughter did History, Art and Chemistry. Why can't he do a combo of the humanities and stem?

I’m a STEM student and there is no way he should do a subject that he has no interest in, not only will it bore him to tears but he will struggle with bothering to show up.

My DD is picking her A Levels this year, she is one of those all round bright at every subject students (which I definitely was not!) and she is going for Art & Design, Photography, Spanish, Computer Science. Slightly off combination, but she wants to do Graphic Design for a degree, hence the first two, loves the second two at GCSE.

I’ve encouraged her all the way.

But he needs to apply to the right universities to stand out

This is a myth imo. I was a secondary teacher for 25 years. Destination didn’t seem to have much impact on career.

Fwiw, our 3 went to one of the ‘new’ universities.

Ds 34 is high in the civil service.
Ds 30 is a lecturer. During his PhD ( at a red brick) Cambridge were interested in his research and he worked with them for a while.
Ds 27 works in national media ( recognisable companies)

People develop academically at different rates. Any worthwhile employer should know this.

Also despite attempts to change things, most red rocks are populated by white middle class. In terms of diversity this isn’t always the best thing for an employer.

Not rtft so not entirely sure if nobody else has said this but

Money isn't everything!

Yes it's a necessity to live but here where it may be simply the difference between high pay and very high pay it really doesn't matter!

A good work life balance, doing something you genuinely love and that fulfils you? FAR more important than a whacking great salary which is usually only possible by not having a life outside work!

We need to stop making our children focus ONLY on money and perceived status as indicators of living a successful life while their mental health and personal lives suffer

Ugh, no. University is challenging and it would be awful to slog away at something you had no interest in for 3 years and end up with a mediocre degree. Do what you love and your natural interest will help you to excel. From personal experience, I have a politics degree but work in biotech earning just short of £100kpa.

My ds loved history, his favourite subject but decided on Commerce hoping to major in economics. However during his course he really got into data analytics and is working in that area now and very happy. History is still his hobby.
Other ds also loved history..its a big interest in our family.
He dis his degree in history and now works as a marketing executive. Think nowadays the degree is only a lauching pad and moving areas is very common. I think it's good he is thinking himself bout his future job..Good head on his shoulders.