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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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To think this is how violent men get their start in life?

287 replies

Anycrispsleft · 28/11/2021 07:47

I wanted to know if you think I'm being U in this scenario, with a boy from my daughters' class. I'll try and tell the whole story from start to finish, but for a bit of background - my 9yo twin (shut up Mumsnet, they really are twins Grin) are in school with a boy, G, and a girl, M. All 4 of them have known each other since nursery, and at nursery they got on OK as most kids do, but since then G's behaviour has gone downhill a bit and he's hit one of my kids a couple of times and is often in trouble at school. Ms mum has been an unofficial childminder for G most of his life: he lives with his dad, a lone parent until about 18 months ago when he got married, so he and M are often together.

The first stushie was about 6 months ago. M Skyped one of my kids one Sunday afternoon and invited them to go and play in her garden.

  1. my kids turned up - G was there as well, being looked after by M's mum/on a playdate
  2. M went and played with my kids in preference to G
  3. G tried to interrupt their game by taking their stuff
  4. The girls retaliated by hiding their stuff from him (and probably laughing at him and stuff, I'm not saying they were particularly kind)
  5. He went home in a strop and said the three of them hadn't been nice to him
  6. My two came home, also in a strop, said G had been disrupting their game and acting like an idiot - I asked them whether they'd called him any names or hit him or anything - no (and I am inclined to believe them, bc at the very least if one of them had been a fecker they would have come back up the road fighting about who caused the fight)
  7. The dad phones me and tells me his boy is upset and I need to talk to my kids and tell them to apologise. I tell him they've already talked to me about it and I don't see any reason for them to apologise any more than he should, that it all sounds like like normal kid falling-out and if the kids don't want to play with each other I'm not going to force them.
  8. Unbeknownst to me at the time, he also phones M's mum. M's mum takes her up to his house and makes M apologise.
  9. The day after M skypes my daughter to say she's not allowed to play with her any more. I tell M she's always welcome at our house.

M's mother never got in touch with me, so I was left in this weird limbo. I wasn't there, G's dad wasn't there, M's mum never spoke to me about the incident, so nobody was actually accusing my kids of anything to me but they couldn't see their friend any more and they were supposed to apologise for something (but G's dad couldn't exactly say what)? I concluded that they're all fucking mental G's dad is maybe paying M to childmind G, and so she feels obliged to make sure he has a nice time and stays to the end of the playdate, and maybe didn't want my kids there at all, but didn't feel like she could say that? Anyway not my monkeys etc... I told the kids not to go down there, we had M over for a few playdates organised by the kids themselves, and all was reasonably quiet.
Then, a couple of weeks ago, my kids were coming out of afterschool and the boy was still playing in the playground with one of his friends. He was like "na na na, you have to go to extra school" and my older daughter was like "bite me loser, the after school lady gave us sweeties" and she waved the sweeties at him and he and his friend chased her down the road, tried to get the sweets off her, then tried to strangle her, before my other daughter and their wee friend from afterschool pulled him off.
Given my opinion of the dad isn't great I said to them to just tell the school in the first instance. The teacher dealt with it pretty robustly, giving them the two of them pretty thoroughly into trouble and making them write an apology to my daughter. I thought that was an end to it - my daughter wasn't that bothered about it - and then on Thursday night I get 3 missed calls and 2 messages on my phone from the dad wanting to speak to me. I just deleted them, then he ran into my husband and chewed his ear off for about half an hour about how after this recent episode the boy had been complaining that he had to apologise and my daughter's had not had to apologise for that time 6 months ago, and the dad said he felt that it had been playing on the boy's mind, and that maybe it had even been responsible for the worsening of his behaviour over the past 6 months. He left his phone number, and asked us to think about it over the weekend. That my daughter not playing with him 6 months ago was the trigger for the boy's mental unrest, and not say the fact that his father had just got married and his new sister had been born, about a month before? That his hurt feelings somehow justified him trying to strangle my daughter, that excluding someone from your game is the same as strangling them? That boys are entitled to girls' care and attention, and if they don't get it, they're entitled to respond with violence? I mean TBH there's no point me putting this in AIBU because there is no way on this earth I would make my daughter apologise to that wee guy. I'm amazed though. That anybody could think that's a normal way to raise your kids.

OP posts:
Rheia1983 · 29/11/2021 15:57

This is what the OP said:

"The first stushie was about 6 months ago. M Skyped one of my kids one Sunday afternoon and invited them to go and play in her garden.

  1. my kids turned up - G was there as well, being looked after by M's mum/on a playdate"

"M's mother never got in touch with me, so I was left in this weird limbo. I wasn't there, G's dad wasn't there, M's mum never spoke to me about the incident, so nobody was actually accusing my kids of anything to me but they couldn't see their friend any more and they were supposed to apologise for something (but G's dad couldn't exactly say what)?"

The OP wasn't there and probably didn't even know that G was there. So why blame the mother?

vivainsomnia · 29/11/2021 16:18

We don't know if she dropped them off, spoke with mum, saw the boy, or the girls walked there on their own anyway.

Either they were all still on friendly terms despite some previous conflicts (again, not clear whether the hitting took place before that time or after), in which case, there was no reason to totally exclude him and then make fun of him.

If however their had been some serious concerns of physical violence prior to that time, and OP knew the mum had him regularly at her house, it seems a normal reaction to call/ask the mum if he was there and to not sender girls when told he was.

It's not about victim blaming but protecting your children. It's not right that they would feel vulnerable in his presence, they would be the victims, but I still wouldn't send my kids knowing they could get hurt.

MollysDolly · 29/11/2021 16:26

M's mother never got in touch with me

No, she knew the boys father was dealing with it, and it's not down to her to discipline your children

So I was left in this weird limbo. I wasn't there

No. But the boys dad spoke to both parents and the other girls mum deemed the behaviour so poor she took her DD to apologise to the boy, (which you can fob off as for business reasons, although this is even a stab in the dark because OP doesn't know if this mother is a paid childminder for the boy) then critically tells her daughter she is not to play with OPs children anymore. That's not required for a business reason. Ask why the other mother decided this.

G's dad wasn't there

No, he addressed this bullying as soon as he heard about it, and so did the other mother in the incident.

M's mum never spoke to me about the incident

Again, not her place to when she knows the boys father is taking it up with you, and again, not her place to discipline your children

So nobody was actually accusing my kids of anything

Sorry, what? The boys father is exactly doing this. Because he can't give you a word by word narrative of everything they said and did that you deem worthy, they've done "nothing". It was "nothing" enough that the other mother said that her DD was not to play with yours anymore.

Simply. He must not hit the girls. They must not bully him. The two things are quite obviously going hand in hand. Both are wrong.

youvegottenminuteslynn · 29/11/2021 16:30

He must not hit the girls

Just a reminder he and a friend also chased and strangled one of them. Which rather changes the six of one half a dozen of the other summary you gave just then.

Namenic · 29/11/2021 16:30

I would dispute that calling someone a loser (provoked) is any worse than being taunted for staying behind at school?!

@MollysDolly - I agree I’d be teaching by kids to steer clear, not provoke. But at the same time the dad’s reaction is totally unacceptable. His child has been violent multiple times and verbally teases others too. Basically, if you are violent, smaller people have to take your taunts and not reply to you, but you can say what you want - sadly it is the way of the world and happens all the time (and sensible thing is to ignore).

supersonicginandtonic · 29/11/2021 16:59

The little boys behaviour is bad yes, but it sounds like the dad is dealing with it. He's been through a lot too. No excuse I know.

You daughter also sounds like a brat to be honest, saying things like "bite me loser" and excluding others from play. And you seem to be one of the parents who feels their child can do no wrong

MollysDolly · 29/11/2021 17:50

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

youvegottenminuteslynn · 29/11/2021 17:55

'Loud and noticeable' is a strange way to describe chasing and strangling someone @MollysDolly. I'm not sure why you're so set on minimising his behaviour but it's a real shame.

EmeraldShamrock · 29/11/2021 17:58

We don't know how frequently the low level bullying occurs. It's a lot easier to "miss" isn't it.
It doesn't excuse his violent reaction.
Maybe I'm wrong I tell DS 'boys don't hit girls' he shouldn't hit boy's either but they're more likely to hit too it would be unfair to say don't hit back, with a girl it is a strict never hit back even IF hit first.
My DS is huge for his age, he is not allowed hit his Dsis.
She doesn't hit him it isn't in her to smack someone.

MollysDolly · 29/11/2021 18:34

@youvegottenminuteslynn

'Loud and noticeable' is a strange way to describe chasing and strangling someone *@MollysDolly*. I'm not sure why you're so set on minimising his behaviour but it's a real shame.
When will people start to understand that calling the girls out on how they've behaved does not mean the boys behaviour is being minimised or excused

This is about the girls being held to account for their nasty behaviour as well

This is literally, the boy is the devil for punching. But the girls who psychologically and verbally bully, well that's irrelevant because the other child hits.

MollysDolly · 29/11/2021 18:38

We don't know how frequently the low level bullying occurs. It's a lot easier to "miss" isn't it.

It doesn't excuse his violent reaction.

Sigh. Who said it did. Are you deliberately missing the 20 times I say that it doesn't?

Yet again, let's ignore the girls though. The girls are ok to bully though, right? They're not hitting, so their nastiness can be glossed over.

EmeraldShamrock · 29/11/2021 19:01

Yet again, let's ignore the girls though. The girls are ok to bully though, right? They're not hitting, so their nastiness can be glossed over.
I'm not excusing the girls, I've no doubt they were aggravating him on the play-date, they're parent didn't help the situation when it kicked off.
It could have been avoided if all the DC acknowledged bad behaviour and apologised after the play date instead of escalating the problem.
All in all he crossed the line with violence.

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