I think I've just experienced what it's like in England..

[Builtthiscityonsausagerolls]

To not be a native English speaker.

My natural first language is Welsh. I went to an English university and obviously have a native proficiency in English but when chatting im more comfortable in Welsh.

So... I'm on a train in the Midlands with a friend. Had a chatty conversation with the conducter in English, guy sitting across from us very friendly. The we switched to Welsh and the difference in attitude was immediate. Felt very hostile. Very hard to explain, but as soon as we switched languages it became almost threatening?

I'm used to speaking Welsh in maybe more border towns (mainly chester) where its quite common, but thinking about it not in 'deep' England :) 😀

We keep going over it, but the change in attitude was definitely when we changed language. Is this really the experienced of non-English speakers? The hostility really was quite overt

In short. Yes, that is the experience. Not always but very often. Its always been like that, but got even worse after Brexit. And I say that as someone who is white and from a country that often gets glorified. My black friends nad family habe it much much much worse.

@Texasfucked

1. How the fuck would they know you don't speak Welsh too

Possibly because we told them? Mum was a great one for talking to people about her years in Wales, and how she tried to learn the language but hadn't succeeded.

2. Why the fuck would they switch from English to Welsh. Welsh speakig people do tend to speak Welsh to eachother.

No idea. It is rude, though, if you're talking to someone in one language, to abruptly switch to another, when you already know that that person doesn't speak the same language. I'm not sure that you'd understand that though, given your hostility.

Not once did I think there was some fucking conspiracy against me.

We weren't interested enough to think that.

I get that you don't want to believe someone else's experience though, so do go ahead with your overly dramatic swearing. It wont make my experience any less true.

My in laws do this at the dinner table when there’s a topic they don’t want to share with me. I’m not hostile, I laugh inside because I can understand most of it anyway!

The guy was being hostile, both my friend and I felt it and acknowledged it. I get that it's hard to explain, but when you're in the situation you can feel when an attitude has changed.
To clarify again, we didn't have a conversation with thus guy. He was sitting opposite us. Had a bit of friendly chat with the conductor which he joined in on but we weren't directly talking to him.
Even if we were, I still find it a bit baffling that according to these responses that meant for the next 2 hours we were obliged to continue our conversation in English.

@londonrach

Wow you were rude. Excluding someone from conversation..no wonder he off with you as felt you talking about him. Never heard Welsh in Chester. Yabu

Genuine question @londonrach - what makes you believe that OP owed this man inclusion in her private conversation?

& why should she be obliged to speak her second language on public transport, in case English speakers want to eavesdrop?

I was on the train ones talking on the phone to my mum. A complete stranger started tuttling about how rude I was. He felt so indignent and entitled that he asked me to "talk English". My mum doesn't speak English. I libe here, I pay tax and NI here. I buy my train tickets and pay my mobilw phone. I'll speak whatever god damn language I want thank you very much.

That was rude of you. English is not my native tongue either, but I would always make an effort to speak in English where other English speakers are present. It's basic manners -- you are not excluding anyone. Your actions said: "I don't want you to know what I am saying."

Reminds me of when as a child my relatives from another country came to visit and started talking in their language... my little brother ran out of the room crying 'mummy mummy! They're not letting me listen!'

I expect he was just wondering why these two strangers were glaring at him.

I was more curious as to whether other people experience hostility when not speaking English in public

Yes, since Brexit, never before. Interesting the hostility and the vehement denials here of the xenophobia that this country definitely has a problem with but people don't want to be accused of.

EileenGC

Except that is not what happened. Did you even bother reading the OP properly”

Well I thought I had. “The guy sitting opposite was extremely friendly” suggested to me that they were talking to him in the same language.

I see your point though, thinking about it.

@BasiliskStare

30 years ago DH & I went into a shop and everyone switched from English to Welsh - their choice obviously - but it felt a bit strange

I would not be slightest bit threatening to you if you spoke Welsh but it can feel excluding the other way round.

ah here we go, was wondering how long it would be until someone broke out this old chestnut. a) how did you know what language they were speaking before you entered the shop? b) how did they magically tell just from looking at you that you weren't welsh/didn't speak welsh?

Most welsh people, even the fluent ones speak a bit of 'wenglish' in casual conversation, with an odd english word, or phrase, every other sentence. Sometimes depending on fluency they might say a whole sentence in English if they can't think of the exact simile/example in Welsh.

So if you recognised an english word or two then nothing else it might sound like they'd switched languages, but it's very unlikely they had, and particularly unlikely that they'd decided to just to piss you off.

In my old job I had to answer the phone 'Bore da, good morning, x Office,' and would often get a panicked 'Um I don't speak Welsh,' despite the fact that less than half the sentence was in Welsh. People don't listen to everything and just make assumptions on what the first thing they heard was.

I realise Wales is part of the uk, but it was annexed for a reason

You were not obliged to speak in English.

He is not obliged to keep grinning at you.

@josssie

How would you feel if the same thing happened to you? We weren't there, but sounds like you offended him

If he was offended by OP & her pal speaking Welsh, he's a ridiculous xenophobe.

You didn't ask me, but this must have "happened to me" hundreds of times, especially in London, where I might frequently not even be able to guess what language people were conversing to each other in.
How did I feel? Like there were some people nearby, talking to each other.
Why on earth would I be offended by that?

Likewise when I hear people speaking Welsh.
It's not about me, & if I'm a stranger to them, why would they need to consider whether I can understand them or not? It's none of my business!

My friend married a Swede. When they are over here, they speak English, mainly. The only time they speak Swedish is if they don’t want others around them to understand what they are saying.

You can’t be surprised that if you switch after having included someone around you, they will find it rude.

I think it totally depends on where you are. In cities with multicultural communities, people don't bat an eye. In more rural places, there are some very strange attitudes towards other languages some of which seem to be repeated on here
Such as: parents shouldn't speak their mother tongue to their own children; you should only speak English when in public (why? if you English speakers go to a non-English speaking country, do you only speak the local language? No I thought not); you're not really 'British' if you don't speak English.
Honestly OP, the guy may have been annoyed but you were under no obligation to include him in your conversation and he and others need to move into the 21 century

Ignore them, keep speaking Welsh. All the people claiming it’s rude would obviously chat to a friend in their first language.

@FlutterShite

I can't believe people are saying you were rude. Or are pretending not to know what it means to sense hostility from a man in the vicinity. I think the main problem here was not language, but that a man realised you were not going to entertain or amuse him, and that speaking another language meant you - as two women in his environment - were not interested in including or focusing on him, or making him feel comfortable or important. And that, to some men, is a grave, grave insult. Hence, the tangible shift in his demeanour.

Exactly, @FlutterShite

Depressing that too many simpering dickpanderers can't recognise the dynamic, & are insisting that if a man wants to be 'friendly' to you, you are RUDE not to comply.

Rude to switch language if he’d been included in the conversation to that point. I’ve lived and worked n Chester for years. Full of scousers😊 and everyone speaks English; there’s a strong welsh speaking contingent on the Mold/Wrecsam side and obviously down into north Wales. It’s got more Welsh there in the last 20 years.IMO
Btw I can speak good conversational Welsh, and still feel discriminated against in certain parts of Wales. I confess to taking some guilty pleasure in watching people’s reactions when I switch from English to Welsh but I only do it when they’re being racist about me because they assume I don’t know what they’ve said.

I am welsh, from north wales. Definately not common to be welsh speaking in north wales (especially Chester). Maybe you just perceived the chappie as hostile and it was in your imagination?

@Builtthiscityonsausagerolls You we're exceptionally rude. I don't blame him for being hostile

Fucking hell, the anger and hostility on this thread absolutely shows the OP isn’t BU.

I visit Chester on a regular basis. Can confirm that you often hear Welsh spoken in the shops in Chester, although many of those people probably don't live in Chester, they come in to go shopping. Or at least they did before Covid closed most of the shops.
Marks and Spencer used to be the most common place to hear Welsh spoken, don't know if that's still the case.

@MasterBeth

You were not obliged to speak in English.

He is not obliged to keep grinning at you.

I agree with this.

The man didn't say a single word to the OP. No mention of threatening or rude gestures either. Yet because he didn't keep smiling, it means he's obviously a xenophobe??