I’m a lady don’t you know ...

[PinkLadyFriday]

I have a name that is gender neutral but prob more men have it than women, I’m female and always have been!

Today a colleague was asked by a supplier what I identify as after receiving an email from me. I’m not sure why he didn’t ask me direct embarrassed I guess.

AIBU to feel a bit put out that the growing acceptance of trans means those of us who are feminine are assumed to be trans just because we have a gender neutral name!

@AwaAnBileYerHeid

He was probably just trying to ascertain if he was speaking to a woman or a bloke and, due to the tiptoeing around language of today, worded it in what he thought was a PC manner, as to not offend.

I am guessing that this is most likely the reason for the weird way the question was asked.

Whether being asked/recommended to write to someone, phone them or being told that I should look for them or expect to meet them (usually through work) I would prefer to know whether they were male or female and have asked questions along the lines of, "Is that Christine-Chris or Christopher-Chris?" - "Sam? Is that a male or female Sam?"

The online appointment-booking system for my Dr's surgery (in England) states whether the practitioner is male or female - but only for those who have "non-English" names, including those with Welsh names. They obviously assume that everyone would realise that "David" is male, which might not be the case.

Which reminds me, they never replied to my application to join the Patient Participation Group some years ago now or my comments on the application form!

Depends on the name - if way more men have it it’s not that unreasonable. Has the supplier seen you? If you have short hair or dress in a masculine way as well as having a mainly male name then I can understand why he might go there. Probably didn’t want to offend you if he felt you came off as manly but wasn’t sure if you were a biological woman.

Asking what you identify as is a safe HR friendly way to know how to address you without either calling you butch (if your a woman) or girly (if your a man), so I get it.

In the "old days" people would just ask "are they a man or a woman?"
But these days a proportion of people take offence at quite minor things. No one wants to have a complaint made about them, or even worse to see themselves crucified on social media. Because this is where we've arrived.
You see it on MN all the time. Posters love to pounce on people to title them as racist or sexist or mysoginistic.
So the poor guy was trying to navigate his way through rules that he probably doesn't even understand yet and trying to give least offence. And then you took offence.

I have a unisex name and would be mortified if someone queried my gender. I’d be very upset and it would definitely damage my self esteem for life.

Like the time I was asked if I was pregnant when I wasn’t. But much worse!

YANBU

@Babybooboodedoo

I have a unisex name and would be mortified if someone queried my gender. I’d be very upset and it would definitely damage my self esteem for life.

Like the time I was asked if I was pregnant when I wasn’t. But much worse!

I understand why you'd be upset if he'd seen you and he didn't know which gender you were. But he just had a name on an email and was asking if the sender was a man or a woman. Why would that mortify you? I too had the pregnancy question. It did not feel good!

@madisonbridges ah I thought he had seen her, misread op

Why do people need to know what gender someone is? Your behaviour shouldn’t change depending on whether you’re speaking to a man or woman. I don’t get the need to know!

I swear you started a similar thread a couple of weeks ago?

Also, YABU. He was carefully trying to figure out wtf you are so he doesn't offend by referring to you as he or she wrongly. Asking what you identify as is the most PC way to do so these days. Get over it🤷

Such a weird question...

@TarasCrazyTiara

Depends on the name - if way more men have it it’s not that unreasonable. Has the supplier seen you? If you have short hair or dress in a masculine way as well as having a mainly male name then I can understand why he might go there. Probably didn’t want to offend you if he felt you came off as manly but wasn’t sure if you were a biological woman.

Asking what you identify as is a safe HR friendly way to know how to address you without either calling you butch (if your a woman) or girly (if your a man), so I get it.

But your sex makes no difference to how someone addresses you. The only difference it makes is how they talk about you when you're not there!

Did he ask a male colleague

@MonsignorMirth

He wants to know if you're a man or woman so he knows whether to talk down to you or actually listen to what you say

Just what I was thinking, @MonsignorMirth

And for those who skipped Biology at school, male and female are sexes and immutable.

You can socially present in the gender stereotypes of masculinity but if you’re a woman, you can’t be male.

@AwaAnBileYerHeid

He was probably just trying to ascertain if he was speaking to a woman or a bloke and, due to the tiptoeing around language of today, worded it in what he thought was a PC manner, as to not offend.

That's it exactly.

I think you're being quite unfair OP.

@Fadette

Yeah it does in the real world. Men can be quite blunt with each other in a way which would be taken as rude by some women in the workplace.

So you think he was effectively seeking permission to be blunt?!

@Fadette

I just think he wanted to know so he could write the correct title on whatever he was sending.
But in other situations people would just be curious and then without knowing it just start to treat them in a more natural way that was suited.

@PinkLadyFriday

His question was “what do they identify as”.

I identify as a left wing, atheist carnivore. Have we reduced identity to this nebulous gender thing? and assumed that people who have no gender identity have not identity?

So the poor guy was trying to navigate his way through rules that he probably doesn't even understand yet and trying to give least offence. And then you took offence.

Isn't that kind of the point though? Either he is trying to force identity politics on others or he is a pawn in a system which is systematically stripping away women's rights to define themselves, to have legal protections and to remove all focus on how women are excluded or marginalised in many parts of society. He doesn't understand as trans ideology is working hard to make sure he doesn't understand as if you actually made clear what was being talked about and suggested people would say WTF. Whether the offense is taking at him personally or not is pretty irrelevant. The fact is that what he did was hugely offensive. If he thinks this is the least offensive question to ask then something has gone terribly wrong. If he thinks he even needs to ask this question you've got to wonder why it matters to him whether OP is a woman or man.

[quote Babybooboodedoo]@madisonbridges ah I thought he had seen her, misread op

Why do people need to know what gender someone is? Your behaviour shouldn’t change depending on whether you’re speaking to a man or woman. I don’t get the need to know![/quote]
When I write to people, I sort of picture who they are and what they look like. Not for nefarious reasons, it just makes them more relatable. I do it when I'm reading books or listening to people on the radio. Why would it be a big thing to ask someone's sex? He didn't ask anything personal.
Not everything men do is down to wanting to annihilate women's self-esteem or jump their bones, despite what you read on MN. 😉

He didn't ask her sex did he? He effectively asked her where she stood on a highly contentious and debated ideology and whether she believed that women ever deserve any protections if it might upset others.

Plus your need to visualise someone is not more important than people's desires to not tell you whether they are a member of the group of people who are treated less seriously once their sex is known.

I wonder how he would have responded if he was asked how he identified, too.

@Fadette

Why does he need to know though? Is he going to treat you differently now he knows that you're a woman?

This.

And, if he actually used the words, can I do a massive fucking eye roll at "identify as"?.

@PinkLadyFriday

Mean happening to both genders for ages those with unisex names.

That person was trying to be respectful of you that’s all.

@Whatiswrongwithmyknee

So the poor guy was trying to navigate his way through rules that he probably doesn't even understand yet and trying to give least offence. And then you took offence.

Isn't that kind of the point though? Either he is trying to force identity politics on others or he is a pawn in a system which is systematically stripping away women's rights to define themselves, to have legal protections and to remove all focus on how women are excluded or marginalised in many parts of society. He doesn't understand as trans ideology is working hard to make sure he doesn't understand as if you actually made clear what was being talked about and suggested people would say WTF. Whether the offense is taking at him personally or not is pretty irrelevant. The fact is that what he did was hugely offensive. If he thinks this is the least offensive question to ask then something has gone terribly wrong. If he thinks he even needs to ask this question you've got to wonder why it matters to him whether OP is a woman or man.

And this in spades.

Make Jo (ha! Unisex name!) Public so paranoid about misgendering therefore guilty of a hate crime they just follow the path of least resistance and do as they're told/think as instructed.

Clever bastards really

And when you consider most men who transition do so later in life after enjoying male privilege for years I did snort my coffee out reading about the "discrimination " they're supposed to experience.

He was trying to find out how to refer to you and overly careful to be PC about it.