Page 2 | I’m a lady don’t you know ...

Silvershroud · 25/11/2021 21:53

@PinkLadyFriday

Not boss - colleague. He said I was a woman, just a normal woman and laughed - he was a bit knocked out I think.

If I described someone in work as a "woman" and qualified it with "just a normal woman" I would be in trouble. I would be asked what I thought an "abnormal woman" was. I'm serious, I'd be very worried the wrong person heard me say that.

Linning · 25/11/2021 21:57

He didn’t assume though since he asked?

Assuming would have been him starting referring to you as “they” or “he” instead of “she/her” without asking any questions.
Him asking “is X your birth name or is it because you identify as non-binary (so I can respect your pronouns)” is barely him making any assumptions or him trying to be offensive.

YANBU to be a bit annoyed by it as no feelings are unreasonable but I think YWBU to be upset at him for trying to be decent and ask a question that is fairly relevant in today’s world (whether one agrees with the concept or not) and that he might have been pressured to ask as part of a new inclusive policy in his workplace for instance.

My dad has a name that’s known to associated with women in English but men in French. If someone’s asked me what my parents name was and I was to answer my dads name followed by my mom no doubt that the person would think I have two moms and I wouldn’t be offended by someone asking me “do you have two moms then?” or “is one of your parents non-binary?” I think for some people the idea that someone would have a gender neutral name is quite out of their thinking. Also some names that is gender neutral to a certain culture really is not in another. If I tried to imply my dad’s name was gender neutral (it is in French though frankly more male leaning than female) , English speaking folks would probably laugh and say “no it’s not at all, it’s 100% a woman’s name.”

So depending on culture maybe this person saw you and could tell you were a woman but maybe your name is not gender neutral where he is from and wrongly thought it might be a chosen name you gave yourself to make a clear statement about your gender rather than your birth name.

SmellyOldOwls · 25/11/2021 21:59

@Hollyoakswatcher

So you have a unisex name and someone asked a colleague if you were male or female, agree not any of their business but other than wanting to do some trans bashing not really sure why you think it has anything to do with “the acceptance of trans men” 🙄🙄

My DH has a more commonly female name and regularly has comments when he talks to people on the phone for the first time that people were expecting to speak to a woman. People just like to have a bit of an idea of who they are talking to.

Yeah I agree with this. Couldn't get worked up about it and sounds like he was just trying to word it carefully. He wasn't to know you'd think he sounds like a knob.

Original poster

PinkLadyFriday · 25/11/2021 22:01

He didn’t ask if I was male or female though did he?? He asked what I identify as - very different.

OP posts:

MrsFin · 25/11/2021 22:04

I think I would have said male, or "it can vary from day to day", just because I am so bloody obviously a woman. 😁

Original poster

PinkLadyFriday · 25/11/2021 22:05

I wasn’t part of the conversation but my colleague got the impression he thought I was trans. I’ve never spoken to him, just exchanged probably 3 emails.

OP posts:

Nemorth · 25/11/2021 22:08

Am I the only one wondering what all these names are?

Original poster

PinkLadyFriday · 25/11/2021 22:13

@Nemorth

Am I the only one wondering what all these names are?

Sam, Chris, Alex, Toni, Danni, Jesse .... there’s loads more.

OP posts:

BurntO · 25/11/2021 22:14

I don’t get the issue. I don’t understand why they asked but hey

costco · 25/11/2021 22:15

Maybe Vivian, Evelyn, Leslie, Ashley, then the abbreviated ones like Sam and Chris and Georg(ina), Charlie. Even Leo as could be short for Leonora or

SpamIAm · 25/11/2021 22:15

It just sounds like they weren't sure from your name (I have one of them!) if you were male or female, so he asked, but he asked using woke language. Doubt he'd have assumed you were trans just based on a gender neutral name, they're common enough, perhaps your colleague just thought that because of the language he used.

Linning · 25/11/2021 22:17

@PinkLadyFriday

He didn’t ask if I was male or female though did he?? He asked what I identify as - very different.

Yes, OP, because the goal was probably to use your preferred pronouns. If one is trans/non-binary then them being female or male is irrelevant to the way they prefer being referred to. He wanted to know how you identify so asking about your genitalia wouldn’t have been the right question to ask in this context and wouldn’t have answered his question.

Original poster

PinkLadyFriday · 25/11/2021 22:17

@BurntO

I don’t get the issue. I don’t understand why they asked but hey

Is that because you’ve never been asked and have no experience of it?

OP posts:

Original poster

PinkLadyFriday · 25/11/2021 22:20

@Linning I was responding to the PP who incorrectly said they had asked if I was male or female.

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WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 25/11/2021 22:25

Maybe I'm slightly misunderstanding the supplier's way of thinking, but if somebody feels so strongly about their trans identity that they change their name to reflect that, why on earth would they not choose an unequivocally feminine or masculine name?

Unless he thinks that adults with unisex/ambiguous names are significantly more likely to be trans/gender-fluid - purely by dint of the name that their astonishingly clairvoyant parents decided to give them at birth?

alexiavalentine · 25/11/2021 22:26

@PinkLadyFriday

He didn’t ask if I was male or female though did he?? He asked what I identify as - very different.

but it's not actually different, for example, my friend identifies as a man and therefore is male, it's really not that difficult to grasp

Linning · 25/11/2021 22:31

@WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll

Maybe I'm slightly misunderstanding the supplier's way of thinking, but if somebody feels so strongly about their trans identity that they change their name to reflect that, why on earth would they not choose an unequivocally feminine or masculine name?

Unless he thinks that adults with unisex/ambiguous names are significantly more likely to be trans/gender-fluid - purely by dint of the name that their astonishingly clairvoyant parents decided to give them at birth?

Because some people are non-binary (not trans) so gender fluid and want a chosen name who is neither masculine nor feminine so gender neutral names are actually quite popular in the non-binary community. Trans people do tend to pick very feminine or very masculine names (depending on their gender identity) based on the fact that they have a will to pass which can be quite hard physically so having a very feminine/masculine name helps the process. Non-binary folks on the other hand usually don’t want to be associated with a specific gender and therefore would rather have a gender neutral name to further emphasis that.

fabricfanatic · 25/11/2021 22:33

I get it, OP. My name is historically a man's name and is still typically used by males. Though there are women with this name, we are fairly uncommon.

I've never minded people looking twice, asking if they'd got the name right, making comments on how unusual it is, etc., but it does bother me that people may now hear my name, see what looks like a woman, and wonder if I'm in the process of "transitioning" one way or the other.

I think I look like what I am, a female, but I can't help but wonder if people ever doubt or question my sex, and tbh, I don't like it! I don't plan to change my name, but I find the potential confusion irksome.

HerRoyalHappiness · 25/11/2021 22:34

my friend identifies as a man and therefore is male,

No. Male and female are sexes and have nothing to do with gender identity. You can be female and identify as a man but that will never make you male.

Sam020 · 25/11/2021 22:36

@PinkLadyFriday

I have a name that is gender neutral but prob more men have it than women, I’m female and always have been!

Today a colleague was asked by a supplier what I identify as after receiving an email from me. I’m not sure why he didn’t ask me direct embarrassed I guess.

AIBU to feel a bit put out that the growing acceptance of trans means those of us who are feminine are assumed to be trans just because we have a gender neutral name!

I would say that yes, yabu.

Maybe he was just nosy but it's possible that he just didn't want to offend by getting it wrong.

I think yabu to think that your minor annoyance compares with the abuse and discrimination that trans and other minorities experience. It's because of growing acceptance that your supplier just asked your colleague politely rather than having a rant at or about you or worse.

AwaAnBileYerHeid · 25/11/2021 23:06

He was probably just trying to ascertain if he was speaking to a woman or a bloke and, due to the tiptoeing around language of today, worded it in what he thought was a PC manner, as to not offend.

HelplesslyHoping · 25/11/2021 23:06

I hope you stretched before that reach x

Fadette · 25/11/2021 23:15

"but it's not actually different, for example, my friend identifies as a man and therefore is male, it's really not that difficult to grasp"

@alexiavalentine are you saying "male" is a gender identity rather than a sex?

MonsignorMirth · 25/11/2021 23:20

He wants to know if you're a man or woman so he knows whether to talk down to you or actually listen to what you say

Lalliella · 25/11/2021 23:46

I would tell my colleagues to always tell people that I wish to identify as a cat.