Had enough of being my mums emotional crutch

[Wintersnuggles10]

My parents are in their 70s. I am their only child. My dad is a very difficult man,always has been. He a classic narcissist. We do get on reasonably well now as I only have to see him in short doses. Obviously my mum is with him 24/7.

Since I was an extremely young child (maybe 5 or 6) my mum has used me as a counsellor, an emotional support, someone to offload all her worries on to etc. She made me dislike my own father when he didn't do anything to me.
Now I'm an adult and parent myself I see how awful this was because it gave me a skewed view of my dad. He was actually a very good dad to me and still is. Was never abusive to me etc. Their relationship wasn't great obviously.
Anyway, my mum is a quiet little mouse. She doesn't have any friends, doesn't go out anywhere with anyone apart from my dad or me /our family. We speak every single day. She contacts me alot. She says if it wasn't for me and the children she would have nothing to live for. If I don't reply within the hour, she's ringing me to see where I am, if I'm OK etc. I see her twice a week. But the trouble is every time we speak on the phone she's complaining to me about my dad and telling me how much she hates him etc. I am so drained after every conversation.
Right now my child has covid and is poorly with it so I'm dealing with that, and my husband is recovering from a severe injury. I have a lot to deal with. But her offloading to me has to come first.
I honestly feel like she and I need some therapy. She is far to reliant on me for emotional support but doesn't give me any support in return. Any tips on how I should deal with this going forward? I can't face anthother 10/20 years of it. But without me she'd be suffering in silence

You already see that it is unhealthy but do you feel unable to put any boundaries in place to reduce/stop it? Your mum, possibly unwittingly, is emotionally abusing you. If you can afford it then I would seek out some some counselling to address this. It really isn't ok for your mum to keep treating you like this and it sounds like enabling it is keeping her trapped too.

What boundaries can I put into place? I have no idea. The only thing I can think of is to tell her I'm not going to have further conversations about my father with her. But then she will have absolutely no one to talk to about her genuine unhappiness. I have told her /begged her to seperate from my dad since I was a child. I've told her so many times that them staying together has been worse for me. They I probably would have had a better relationship with him if they had been seperated. But she just says now that they are too old to ever consider seperating

Yes - you can tell her that (and I have a friend who had to have that exact same boundary with her mother. Her parents then went on to split after 40+ years of marriage - your mother is not too old to consider separating) and have that boundary. You can tell her how this makes you feel.

It was and is her choice to stay with him. It's not your responsibility to listen to her complain about something she is capable (but unwilling) to change. She can get a therapist if she wants to complain about your dad. It's so inappropriate for her to be doing that to you. You need to tell her you're sorry she feels unhappy but he's your father and you are not comfortable with her talking to you about their problems. You're their child. Just no.

You're right this is emotional abuse. It's called covert incest and is not nice to deal with and realise that you shouldn't have had to spend your life dealing with it.
It's important that you focus on your own healing and not try to "fix" your mum or naked the mistake of thinking that you can get her to admit her abuse and apologise then everything will be OK.
In my case acceptance that my dad had his own abusive childhood to deal with, and did the best he could even though it was harmful to me, and gradual distancing myself from him have been helpful.

Sorry those sentences are poorly constructed!

Agree with pp. You can simply say you just refuse to talk badly about your dad. That it’s not a subject you are comfortable with.

She could join an online community run by Mind. She can blog on there every day to vent any frustrations or complaints and be heard and supported.
sidebyside.mind.org.uk/

Mind also has lots of useful self help articles about mental health and so on. If she browses them she will probably think of therapy and then be more likely to do it as it will be her idea.

Thanks for the replies. My mum doesn't have a smart phone or the internet at home, never has. So she can't go online for anything. I'm able to come on here to vent about things in my life which really helps me. She directs everything at me.
I want to tell her to stop, I really do. But it's been this way for over 35 years. Where she does it every time we are together. We are going Xmas shopping on Thursday which should be a real treat but she will spend the whole time moaning about him

OP I wrote a very similar post yesterday (Caught up in parent's bad marriage). I understand exactly what you are going through. I have both of them ringing me complaining about their miserable existences and it is utterly draining. I often cry after the calls. I struggle to shake off the feelings of despair after being around them.
My Dh is getting really annoyed with the situation as he sees the effect on me and he wants me to reduce down contact for my own sake but the guilt is awful as they have no one else to vent to.

I have tried talking to them about the effect on me and it helps for a short while but they soon slip back into old ways.

One poster on my thread mentioned FOG - fear obligation and guilt. I remember reading about this some years ago and am going to google it again.

I have no advice but just wanted to say you are not alone in dealing with this type of situation.

If she has genuine 'unhappiness' it's up to her to deal with it.
Maybe she just likes having 'the story' to tell you about what a wanker he is to her. What would she be talking about if she didn't have that to say to you? Maybe she likes her life but also likes to give out about him to you.
There is a pattern here where she's using you as a coping mechanism for stuff she won't face herself.
Every time she starts tell her gently that she should go to counselling if she's unhappy. And not just about her marriage but that it might open a lot of doors to happiness in other parts of her life.
Say things like 'I hear you tell me a lot about Dad and how difficult that relationship is for you, but I cannot help you, only you can help yourself with that, I really think you should speak to a counsellor, I can look up names if you like'.
Also, 'I'm hearing that you are very unhappy in the situation at home. What do you think you would like to do about it because only you can change it'
Instead of engaging with the content of what she is saying 'he did this and he said the other', instead speak to the context of it which is that she is telling you she is very unhappy with the situation.
Also you can say things like 'you sound very angry' or 'you sound very sad'. Bring it back to her constantly rather than referring the match between her and your Dad by engaging in speculation or evaluation of his behaviour as right or wrong.

Therapy would be a good idea. I got some for a similar reason and it helped.

Putting boundaries in place is theoretically simple with regards to phonecalls - just don't answer the calls. I know in practice it's bloody difficult, but it can be done.

Tell her you won't be able to speak to her tomorrow, but will ring on Friday. You're 'busy', have 'stuff to do'. There's no need to be specific. Tomorrow, block her calls so you don't get distressed by them. Friday morning ring her and reiterate that she knew you couldn't speak the day before. Cut down her protests.

Tell her you don't want to hear her moans about your father. Reiterate when she starts and tell her you'll be ending the call. Do so if she ignores you.

You are NOT responsible for her, or for her happiness. I suspect she's like my mother and only happy when she's unhappy. That does not give her an excuse to try to pull you down too.

It won't be easy, but it is achievable. But Di get therapy.

Are you sure your dad is the classic narcissist? They’re not usually capable of being good parents. Your mum’s inability to differentiate her role as parent is actually more telling. And to constantly choose the role of victim and remain so even to expect a small child to be her adult/hero/counsellor,confidante, etc…. I suspect that she is actually a Covert Narcissist, and your father may still have Narcissistic Traits, but actually be her “Beard.” I bet in their relationship, her “Victim” role is actually covering for her dominant, controlling behaviours. (Ie, having to know where you are at all times, calling you constantly, being intrusive, invading your private, emotional, mental space, etc.) He is acting as a dominant person, but is in fact, terrified of her losing her shit.

I know it's very difficult but you have to establish some really hard boundaries.
Turn your phone to silent, tell her you won't be accepting her calls or texts at the moment. Give her a time in a week when you can talk but explain to her that her behaviour has a very negative impact on your well-being.
Refuse to listen to her complaining about your father and tell her straight that it's not too late to divorce him if she can't live with him.
You have to be strong, otherwise she will keep draining you.

Your mother has put herself first, ahead of your happiness and well being her whole life.
Ahead of her child.

Are you going to do the same?
Because it sounds like YOU are now putting your mother ahead of your husband, children and your own family's happiness?

Your husband is not happy?
Yet you continue to allow your mother to use and abuse you?

You need to think about the above.

Why are you putting this woman ahead of your family?

You surely don't want your children to look back atvtheir childhood and just remember a stressed mother because she wouldn't put space between her and their grandmother?

You need to give your head a wobble.

Your loyalty is to your husband and children and NOT your mother.

You need to tell her that you need space.
You don't want to hear from her every day.
You don't want to hear her mention your father.

So what if she has nothing to live for?

That is NOT your problem to fix.

I don't mean to be harsh but you need to be a better mother to your children that she was to you.

Stop putting her ahead of your children and husband.

Your family need you happy and well.

She is preventing this.

Stop being a slave to her needs.

Seek out counselling to help you disengage from her.

Her happiness is not your responsibility.

When you get this, it is so freeing.

Don't waste this time with your children on her.

You cannot fix her.

I feel for you as am also an emotional crutch for my mum although different circumstances.

There is a particular flash point for us and I have told her if that is something she wants to keep in her life I want nothing to do with it and don't want to hear about it. I will literally hang up or walk out if she starts on the subject and doesn't respect my request to stop.

Also, don't feel guilty about turning your phone off for a few hours.

@Justilou1
Really thought provoking post

You are not unreasonable in feeling as you do. It’s terribly draining. Like you say you don’t want to go on for another 10/20 years like this.
You aren’t responsible for her decisions. It’s her choice to have no friends, not use internet etc.
Can you speak to her and say you aren’t listening to her offload re your father any more. It’s not healthy for any of you. Maybe say you are having counselling and it’s what therapist recommends. Then if she tries to raise it end the call. Mum we’ve discussed this I’ll go now.
Get out of daily calls - mum we need some space.
It sounds so difficult for you good luck.

@Justilou1

Are you sure your dad is the classic narcissist? They’re not usually capable of being good parents. Your mum’s inability to differentiate her role as parent is actually more telling. And to constantly choose the role of victim and remain so even to expect a small child to be her adult/hero/counsellor,confidante, etc…. I suspect that she is actually a Covert Narcissist, and your father may still have Narcissistic Traits, but actually be her “Beard.” I bet in their relationship, her “Victim” role is actually covering for her dominant, controlling behaviours. (Ie, having to know where you are at all times, calling you constantly, being intrusive, invading your private, emotional, mental space, etc.) He is acting as a dominant person, but is in fact, terrified of her losing her shit.

THIS. And @billy1966 responses are brilliant.

I am so sorry you are having to deal with this, along with your child & husband's illness/injury. I grew up with a narccisist father, and although my mum didn't put on me in the way that yours does, it was clear that their marriage was unhappy & I spent decades trying to save/protect her.

It did not work. As PPs have said, your parents are responsible for their own marriage. It is absolutely inappropriate and unfair for your mum to treat you the way she does. The truth is, if she REALLY wanted to leave, she would have done it by now. It's not that they are too old to separate, it's that she is now defined by and comfortable in her narrative as being 'poor me' - she probably wouldn't know what to do with herself if they got divorced, as this is now her story.

Her being isolated without friends/support is sad, but ultimately her own choice, and NOT your responsiblity.

Sit her down and explain to her, clearly, exactly how this is making you feel and how it is impacting you. Tell her that you need her to stop venting to you in this way, before it ruins your own relationship with her. If she doesn't change, you then need to begin enforcing boundaries, eg 'Mum, we have spoken about this - I'm not willing to hear you speak about my Dad in this way. If you continue to do so, I will have to terminate the call'. And make sure you follow through with it.

If she is unwilling to change her behaviour, you have to change yours. It's hard and it's horrible, but it must be done, for your own sake, as well as your family's. You deserve better! I'd recommend reading this book, which may help you gain some insight into this kind of behaviour/control. And do seek therapy if you can, it definitely helped me.

Good luck x

www.amazon.co.uk/Toxic-Parents-Susan-Forward-ebook/dp/B003Q6D5PM/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=Toxic+parents&srpt=ABIS_BOOK&qsid=260-5047125-7698562&sres=0553814826%2CB09H3535T4%2CB08F65J4WN%2CB07Q7299QT%2CB07W2ZG3BJ%2C1655156241%2CB09MJ7269Z%2CB08XZDSF8Q%2C1626251703%2CB08XMLKQFF%2CB09FCCLNMQ%2C1642501301%2C1801187258%2C1642790990%2CB09GJL9HJW%2C163353717X&tag=mumsnetforu03-21&qid=1638361255&sr=8-1

I really feel for you OP; sounds like this dynamic is chipping away at your mental health. I would strongly recommend therapy (especially psychodynamic) as any decent therapist will help you to recalibrate what is a normal, nurturing family relationship and one where there is abuse or lack of boundaries. You must look after yourself as a priority; and the constant rehashing with you about your dad that she does is clearly not helping anyway, it's making you miserable.

I think your last sentence is the way to go.

Can either you or your mum afford a therapist. Go together at first so you can explain to the therapist how her behaviour is affecting you. She will then have someone to unload to, who also will give her boundaries towards you. If you start off as a “couple” then maybe you can have sessions together and/or separately as time goes on.

I don’t know if there are any free services out there.

If she could learn some basic internet stuff she could access forums and unload to others. How difficult would that be?

If feel for you I really do. I was the emotional support for my mum since I was nine years. I was told in therapy she was a narcissist.

I’m having some problems of my own and the temptation to ask my DD about things regarding my husband/her dad is so strong. But I know it is wrong, wrong wrong. Best of luck

Hi op not sure if therapy helps. I have strict boundaries now. But you wont change them at 70 in my case 80. I found if I didnt reply she was ring the house phone. Got needy and I had step back a bit

'I would strongly recommend therapy (especially psychodynamic) as any decent therapist will help you to recalibrate what is a normal, nurturing family relationship and one where there is abuse or lack of boundaries'

Very much agree with the suggestion of therapy, but NOT with your mother. Just for you alone. Your mother sounds so much like my mother. It is so bloody draining having to listen to endless complaining and moaning but absolutely nothing ever changes. It's soul destroying. You are not being seen by her as a separate person, but rather used as an emotional dumping ground for all the shit she needs to get off her chest. Where are you in this relationship? Where are your needs, and your thoughts, and your feelings? It was me who mentioned FOG (fear, obligation, guilt) on Lina1's thread, and I think it would be good for you to look into it too

I know it's very easy to talk about boundaries, and switching the phone off, and being unavailable, and so much harder to actually do it. But other posters are right - you absolutely have to start putting some distance between you and her. I realised at one point that I had to choose between me or my mother - there was no way I could look after both of us and make both of us happy. I chose me, with the help of my therapist, and a lot of pain, and a lot of grieving, and I have never ever regretted it. Good luck to you. It's a hideous situation, but you can get yourself out

I had to do this with my MIL when I was pregnant with DD1 and spell out that DH was her son, she was not his child. His child was growing inside me and was his first responsibility from now on. There would be no more rescues or counselling sessions for her to ignore and frustrate him with. Also no more money. She needed to adult for herself from that point on.

This is so similar to the situation I had with my late mother, I felt sick reading it. To this day the sound of a landline phone ringing fills me with dread. She used to do what yours does - call me frequently and drone on and on moaning about my father. Nothing I could say or suggest made any difference. She was just wallowing in victimhood but unwilling to help herself. As you say it’s very draining. Her finest hour was probably when she visited me in hospital after I had a horrendous birth and emergency caesarean, lost lots of blood, sitting there with puffy swollen legs, so weak I could hardly stand…….. yes, she sat there moaning about my father! Other mums were being visited by smiling parents bringing flowers. I would have cried if I’d had an ounce of energy left.

As pp have said, you can’t fix her. You can’t make her happy. You really can’t. Nothing you can do will make her happy. Her life is her responsibility and none of it is your fault.

Please, don’t let her drag you down with her. Unless you go NC or very LC you’re in for years of this, it will get worse and I guarantee she’ll start to affect your child. If she chooses to “suffer in silence” when there’s plenty of professional help out there, that’s her choice. Your life is yours.

I agree with @Lottapianos - counselling or therapy would help you (it did help me) but NOT with her. That would reinforce her belief that you’re somehow in this together. It is not OK for her to be emotionally dependent on her adult child.

My mum was in a very unhappy relationship. I was weighed down by the daily offloading. Everything became my problem. One day I just snapped.
I said if this was me you'd have told me to leave a long time ago. I'm happy to help you make those plans but if you choose to stay I can't keep having these conversations where all you do is offload all this negativity, it's too much for me.
She left him