Expectations of adult step children

[PerfectlyImperfectme]

Hi.
I wondering if me / my family are out of touch here or my partner & his adult children are.
Been the ptr 5 years - his 'boys' are 21,23 & 25.
Background - I will say now I think they both (ptr & exw) have babied the boys & as a result there's a level of entitlement I'd not expect to see in anyone over mid teens. I'm not ow & when we meet up / they come over we get on great. But they require collecting and dropping back. Mom doesn't like them getting public transport & so they are not familiar with it. They all have licenses but no car, mom has car but doesn't want them driving to ours in it or late night.

My problem. Their mother still buys card for them to give ptr & buys token gifts, all v obvious as generic from m&s. All sign the one card. 2 eldest have Gfs of 3+ years.
I'm yet to make it onto the Christmas card he receives.
Ptr is a bit upset by there lack of effort but hadn't spoken to them & continues to make excuses.
I know some boys are a bit slow on the uptake of adult life & making time or putting effort into things but I know they do it for their mother & gfs. All down tools & come home from work / uni on her birthday.
I feel ptr needs to talk / show them the way he expects to be treated. I think by the time you get to 20 you should be able to buy a card & post it to your Dad on his birthday without mom prompting or all 3 having to sign the one card.
My family for info - we all were taught the importance of making people feel loved & special on their day & Christmas. We sent our own cards by 16, granted my brother needed reminding but he stil got his own. We starting giving small gifts from ourselves around the same age.
I don't want to keep mentioning as my ptr is aware but how do I / can I influence change ?
I'm a bit too blunt & my answer would be to send them a single Christmas addressed to all, same with gifts and see if the penny drops lol... But I guess that's mean.

Sorry it's so long & rambly - I don't want to cross swords with anyone but I'd like my ptr treated more fairly as an equal parent

It was always left to me to send them cards so I used to include the non-resident cousin and her DH on the family card to make a point, so she never had a card from us for her own house. Petty I know but it used to annoy me a lot.

Petty doesn't even cover it tbh. She will not have noticed or cared about the card.

I really don't understand why grown ups get upset about presents.

I really don't understand why grown ups get upset about presents
Because usually whatever is going on with presents is a reflection on someone's attitudes to the relationship.

If someone's husband gets them a shit gift, it's not the gift itself that is the issue, it's the fact their husband couldn't be bothered bothered put some thought into something their wife would like.
If someone is excluded from cards/presents, more often than not they're not upset about the fact they haven't got a present, it's the act of deliberate exclusion, or the fact that the other person didn't take the time to think about them.

@Leghardwareremoval
Well those are your circs not ours. Ptr was always interested, involved, loving, interested etc & remains so.
He left home young, brought house young & had tried to encourage independence - obviously in line with costs of living now.
It's a hard balance when Mom does so much that it undermines the independence they are trying to achieve.
She's in for a shock when baby/ youngest doesn't come from from uni but takes up a working holiday place he's been offered.
A parents job is to help children grow & be happy & independent, not to apply the 'poor me' pressure so the apron strings are never cut.

She's a nice woman as I'm sure you are, but she needs to find a way to let loose and enjoy an adult relationship with them based on mutual give & take. The eldest earns double her salary but she's funding his gifts - more fool her

You and DP need to cut out babying young men by providing them with lifts etc .

Their mother is hindering their social development and independence but that doesn't mean their father has to collude with her. Rather the opposite; its time for him to set a better role model. For their sake. What their mother is teaching them will damage their ability to conduct normal adult relationships.

The transport thing does seem a bit odd - I had thought at first that it might be a long-term effect of lockdown, resulting in lack of experience of public transport; but, given that they do travel abroad, this is unlikely. Also, they can drive, so couldn't the mother sometimes let them use her car? Unless there is something particularly problematic about where you live, I suspect that she is being a bit passive-aggressive about their contact with you and her ex, and trying not to make it too easy for you. I would give them lifts when it's convenient for you, but not when it isn''t!

The birthday card thing, on the other hand, is, to be frank, not your business and you should not get involved.

@ddl1
@2bazookas
Thank you - we have started this. Ptr is wording things differently & asks now are they getting a lift or what time their bus / train arriving on. Only minimal push back when later in evening

You need to pick them up and drop them off!? What madness is this!

Next time they come over make no moves to provide transport, taxi? Drive yourself? Bus? When the pushback comes ask them who does it for them when at uni? Or when they are on holiday? And if it’s their girlfriends then god only help those poor girls.

Sorry OP, it’s not your fault at all and it’s good there is at least one person within the family that thinks this is batshit - but this is where all the shitty husbands come from. The husbands that see cleaning/ shopping/ child rearing as “womens work”, that have misogynistic views in the workplace around the value of women and have never changed a nappy at home. I know that sounds extreme but men who have been babied and put on a pedestal are taught from a young age that this is obviously normal!

On the card and present front I think your idea of a joint one is hilarious and might just point out the unfairness of it. I would still get separate gifts though, just maybe a tiny little less thoughtful than usual.

And if that doesn’t work, dad and boys down the pub for a pint where he explains that he’s sad they don’t treat him fairly and asking if he’s done something to offend. Examples at the ready of when he’s done just as much as mummy. Hopefully then Que awkwardness and hopefully a prod in the right direction in future.

Why do you care? Do you think they should be giving you a card and present? Why would they do that? You’re dad’s partner and they are early 20s and probably don’t give a fuck about you beyond whether or not dad seems happy with you. If it’s just about your partner feeling disappointed and expressing that to you, surely you just tell him to tell his own kids that it’s nice to send cards/presents? If it’s about how their mum parents her kids then thank your lucky stars that they were all 16+ when you met your partner and you don’t need to be involved in parenting them, then forget about it?

[quote PerfectlyImperfectme]@Outnumbered99
That's the thing. They are capable of travelling abroad, up & down the country on holidays but not across the city to us. Mom feels we should pick n drop back. I'm happy if working near or time allows to collect but as we'll be having a drink or maybe going to work after depending on the day we think it's not unreasonable to travel back on public transport or taxi[/quote]
Well this is where you can intervene. The cards and presents - maybe you think they should be doing more, but that’s up to their father to raise. The lifts? If you’re expected to go out of your way to pick them up and drop them off, you have every right to say ‘No, it’s ridiculous. They’re grown men; they can take a bus or a train’. Their mother might prefer them to be picked up and dropped, but frankly that’s tough titty. The time for her to stress about them getting a bus alone was when they were 12. If your husband wants to keep picking up and dropping off, let him - but don’t get involved in it yourself.

The lifts thing is fair enough. Don’t get involved in providing lifts unless you are going that way anyway and have space in your care.

Why should the mum have to give up her car to facilitate the “boys” visiting her ex? I wouldn’t be doing that.

How far away do they live? I would give a lift to my adult relatives if the journey by car was straightforward and public transport increased the time taken. Also if they have stuff to transport.

I don't think it's babyish to give a lift if doing so is at low personal cost and you're happy to it. I have similar aged dc and they are highly independent but I still want to care for them....because I can. It's no different to making them a favourite meal when they get home.

I think you feel resentment for them due to no card for you. They are obviously well adjusted and functioning adults so don't gripe over small issues that don't impact you.

@Babyiskickingmyribs
Yes I absolutely do think it's polite & friendly when they are coming over to my house at Christmas to include my name on the card they send their father and a token box of chocolates. It's not a big ask and is something feels personal that they don't.
They are happy to accept my offer of work discounts & me booking things for them I can get priority on. I guess I'm asking too much 🙄

My first thought was honestly - god help those girlfriends.

For you and your partner - just let it go. He is perfectly capable of telling his adult children they can bloody well use public transport they’re not kids anymore. And if the cards thing bothers him he should tell them its embarrassing that at their age their mother is still treating them like this.

I suspect it’ll go down like a lead balloon as they clearly like having no responsibility but it’s not your place at all.

@Leghardwareremoval
No one is asking her to despite her moving an further 20 minutes away.
They are more than big enough to get public transport.

I think the lifts thing is where you/your partner can start initiating change. It's frankly mad unless you live in a warzone with snipers and haven't mentioned this that three twentysomethings can't use public transport within their own city.

This from your op
They all have licenses but no car, mom has car but doesn't want them driving to ours in it or late night.

I wouldn’t want my kids driving to my ex’s in my car either. That’s not my job to facilitate. And I especially wouldn’t want them doing it in the evening when I might need the car for myself.

Mom has clearly been asked to lend car, or you wouldn’t say that. And that’s unfair on the mom.

@Leghardwareremoval
We've not asked her. They are on her insurance for weekend driving back and forth to gf / uni friends etc.
It's not her job to facilitate you are right - nor is it her job to hinder & apply pressure to not go because it's night & she doesn't want them on public transport or using her car.

I have adult stepchildren too. The difference is that I am married to their father. They had the riot act read to them by DH very early on in our marriage, when I was treated like a second class citizen, and since then I have received birthday cards and presents and Christmas cards are to the two of us.

Their mother still buys card for them to give ptr & buys token gifts, all v obvious as generic from m&s. All sign the one card. 2 eldest have Gfs of 3+ years.

MIL does this for some of DH relatives - honestly we all find it really odd - and if we then do our own can put us in the wrong - we let it go not worth upsetting MIL who we do see over relatives we may go years never seeing.

The transport thing is odder - wonder if they go along with theri DMum to avoid any arguments - but yes I'd do lifts if it was convenient and slowly push back.

If it’s her car she absolutely has the right to set limits on what they use it for.

I really wouldn’t worry about not being included in a Christmas card written by your partner’s ex on behalf on their joint kids. It’s not going to be a good indication of their relationship with you. Some people just don’t see the point in cards or token presents. The fact they are happy to ask you about discounts through your work is actually a sign they are comfortable with you. I think you should aim for a comfortable relationship where they are respectful towards you and appreciative when you do nice things like sort discounts. They may not ever actually consider you to be family to them. If my parents divorced and remarried I wouldn’t really consider any partner’s they might meet to be anything to do with me. They definitely won’t appreciate any criticism of their mum wanting to keep them safe by avoiding late night public transport. Yes it’s a ridiculous thing to expect your adult sons to be ferried around. But be careful how you speak about it to them and to your partner.

@Leghardwareremoval
Again - not saying she doesn't 🙄
She's an abundance of rights, we know !
However she isn't right to nag / apply such pressure that is easier & quieter for all that visits happen when she's at work, or in the day light etc.

I'm a firm believer in that ... With every right you have there is a responsibility to not abuse it and ensure you are giving the same rights to others ie the right to make their own decisions

|I was reading the OP and waiting for the bit where the SC were being horribly unreasonable.

But that's it? You don't like their card writing etiquette?