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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Freezing schools

321 replies

Ineedapuppy · 22/11/2021 20:18

DD8 has cried this afternoon at how cold it is in her classroom with all the doors and windows open. Apparently she’s not allowed a blanket from home and the only response from school is to wear layers under uniform Hmm

AIBU to think that this is unkind? At work (large multi National company) staff would NOT work in these freezing conditions. How can it be fair to expect young kids to do it and if so, why make them wear flimsy uniforms?

OP posts:
ThousandsOfTulips · 22/11/2021 23:40

@noblegiraffe

with an adequate increase in heating to compensate

How much extra funding do you think schools have been given to turn the heating up?

Ours goes off at midday.

I haven't said they have. They should be. Not seen any notifications from schools demanding this from Government and asking parents to contact the MP and back them up, petitions started to this effect, etc. Why? We get hassled every week for various costume days and donations but not a word about this. I think all parents would back it. But tumbleweed, nothing at all.
Mistressiggi · 22/11/2021 23:43

I don't know about schools in England, but if we criticised our employers like that, or made statements that could be seen as political, we would be in bucketloads of trouble. Just not allowed.

noblegiraffe · 22/11/2021 23:43

Schools aren’t allowed to be political and when teaching unions ask for stuff like funding for ventilation or heating they get either ignored or abused.

ThousandsOfTulips · 22/11/2021 23:44

@Mistressiggi

BritneyB you seriously can't be saying dentists are knuckling down and accepting risk in a way that teachers aren't. Hmm I haven't been able to take myself or my dc to the dentist since March 2019. Like most teachers, I do not know how to establish a safe level of airflow through my room. I can't tell just how many windows and how wide gives a safe(r) level for those in the room. Can anyone?
Yes. This is why we have scientists.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachmentdata/file/928720/S07899EMGRoleeofVentilationninControllinggSARS-CoV-2_Transmission.pdf

ThousandsOfTulips · 22/11/2021 23:45

@noblegiraffe

Schools aren’t allowed to be political and when teaching unions ask for stuff like funding for ventilation or heating they get either ignored or abused.
I'm not sure how kids having air to breathe and not getting hypothermic is a political issue tbh, surely no politician would want to argue?
CraftyGin · 22/11/2021 23:47

Does your school have a PTA or School Council?

If so, work with them to come up with a workable solution.

I remember freezing classrooms in the 70s. We just wore layers.

noblegiraffe · 22/11/2021 23:48

I'm not sure how kids having air to breathe and not getting hypothermic is a political issue tbh

Because it’s a failing on the part of the government.

Mistressiggi · 22/11/2021 23:49

@ThousandsOfTulips on which of those 32 pages does it tell me how many windows I need to have open in my room to adequately ventilate it?

Britneyb · 22/11/2021 23:52

@Mistressiggi my dentist surgery has accepted the risk, yes. Me and DCs have seen our nhs dentist for check ups and treatment. No open windows, no co2 monitor, no testing just gloves and a mask. Same for people working in most sectors to be honest, especially supermarket staff people have just learnt to live with it. It’s just about balancing the risks and freezing cold kids isn’t better than covid.

noblegiraffe · 22/11/2021 23:54

So you want kids in masks so the windows can be closed, Britney?

Britneyb · 22/11/2021 23:54

I actually really feel for the school staff too because it’s not right that schools seem to be the only places affected by this open window policy

Britneyb · 22/11/2021 23:56

@noblegiraffe I don’t mind kids in masks. But still my point stands I didn’t have a mask on when the dentist had her fingers in my mouth and most people don’t wear masks to the supermarket so why is this only a thing in schools?

noblegiraffe · 22/11/2021 23:57

At a guess because kids aren’t vaccinated, and the vast majority of adults are.

However the recommendation is to open windows in other places too, like your home if you have guests. Promoted ads all over twitter telling me this.

Mistressiggi · 22/11/2021 23:58

How many people were in the dentists surgery, out of interest? Not comparable to sustained contact with 30 students (x however many classes you have)
I think it's shocking people are going to the supermarket without masks, personally, it is not like that here.

ThousandsOfTulips · 23/11/2021 00:01

[quote Mistressiggi]@ThousandsOfTulips on which of those 32 pages does it tell me how many windows I need to have open in my room to adequately ventilate it?[/quote]
This is the summary of the scientific research that SAGE looked at. The DfE were given the data and detailed analyses behind it. It is for them to identify - with the help of scientific advisors if they need them - how many windows should be open and how much in your particular school and classroom, with its particular ventilation system.

The national guidance can't possibly encompass a risk assessment of each premises. How would I possibly answer that about a place I have never been to? The local LA/ academy trust etc needs to do that risk assessment. That is their job.

They own these buildings, they know how the ventilation works, they get the data, and they need to implement policies that reflect those situations and the risk.

If your employer has not done that then speak to your union about it, rather than flinging open every door and window and making children freeze all winter.

noblegiraffe · 23/11/2021 00:02

They own these buildings, they know how the ventilation works, they get the data

That’s what the CO2 monitors are supposed to be for. My school hasn’t received any yet.

ThousandsOfTulips · 23/11/2021 00:10

@noblegiraffe

They own these buildings, they know how the ventilation works, they get the data

That’s what the CO2 monitors are supposed to be for. My school hasn’t received any yet.

They have plans of the building, how the ventilation system works and where the intake it, where it is purified (if at all) etc. It has to be serviced annually. They don't need to measure the CO2 level in specific rooms to know a) how effective their system is b) where it circulates contaminated air between rooms c) how effective the filter system is d) areas that are more at risk due to design of the building/ filtration system/ density of occupation etc.

Not that hard to set a reasonable policy kn how to ventilate the building if you have all of that knowledge and know it's geography. And it wouldn't involve all windows and doors being wide open all day long. CO2 monitors may help tweak it but not required to make a start. I presume you have some science teachers?!

For a start everything should be opened after school to get fresh air through the whole building. Then close everything and it can be warmed again with fresh air inside for morning.

Thewiseoneincognito · 23/11/2021 00:11

Dress your child in the appropriate thermal clothing, add layers as suggested by the school. Taking in a blanket, LOL, honestly some people.

It’s either that or you’ll be home schooling again OP…

Folks need to realise classrooms need ventilation which means having windows open in the cold winter months when infections will be highest otherwise schools will be forced to close again, there’s no way around it.

Mistressiggi · 23/11/2021 00:12

Thousands that makes no sense to me - no one is going to come into my room and tell me which of the 12 mini windows I have needs to be open, when and for how long. I did get a shot of a CO2 monitor, for one day only. I asked if anyone could tell me how many windows I needed to keep open and in response you posted that document. So you seemed to think it would help me?
I am not relying on fresh air only in the morning and evening, when there are over 100 teenagers in my room in a day.
I don't think my pupils are freezing. I tell them they can keep their coats on and half of them haven't even worn one to school (November in Scotland, it's not like they could imagine it would be warm).

ThousandsOfTulips · 23/11/2021 00:13

Except, oooops. See below.

noblegiraffe · 23/11/2021 00:14

how the ventilation system works and where the intake it, where it is purified (if at all) etc. It has to be serviced annually.

What ventilation system are you talking about Confused There isn’t a ventilation system, there are windows (if you are lucky they even open).

BungleandGeorge · 23/11/2021 00:15

I thought the latest gov guidance did say that below a certain temperature the windows should be closed?
Lots of covid in kids in our school despite vaccinations, masks and windows open.
The school uniform is a skirt and short sleeved blouse which must not have anything visible underneath so how much can you actually layer up?

ThousandsOfTulips · 23/11/2021 00:17

@Mistressiggi

Thousands that makes no sense to me - no one is going to come into my room and tell me which of the 12 mini windows I have needs to be open, when and for how long. I did get a shot of a CO2 monitor, for one day only. I asked if anyone could tell me how many windows I needed to keep open and in response you posted that document. So you seemed to think it would help me? I am not relying on fresh air only in the morning and evening, when there are over 100 teenagers in my room in a day. I don't think my pupils are freezing. I tell them they can keep their coats on and half of them haven't even worn one to school (November in Scotland, it's not like they could imagine it would be warm).
I'm sorry, but that is just appalling. Lots of people are back in busy offices and shops and factories and all kinds of other busy work environments now and are accepting some risk is part of life.

Ventilation is good. Opening windows a crack for air circulation. Not having all windows and doors wide open in winter, that's totally ridiculous.

You cannot expect these children to learn and achieve if you are effectively asking them to work outside all winter in Scotland. It's bonkers.

noblegiraffe · 23/11/2021 00:17

Don’t think so, Bungle?

Besides, we don’t have thermometers either.

ThousandsOfTulips · 23/11/2021 00:19

@noblegiraffe

how the ventilation system works and where the intake it, where it is purified (if at all) etc. It has to be serviced annually.

What ventilation system are you talking about Confused There isn’t a ventilation system, there are windows (if you are lucky they even open).

So then your risk assessment by the LA/ Academy or whatever should be kn that basis, looking at the data as to how much in your particular environment windows need to be opened to ensure adequate ventilation.

In no scientific report have I seen it stated that all windows and doors should be wide open, even in winter. Happy to be corrected.