Freezing schools

[Ineedapuppy]

DD8 has cried this afternoon at how cold it is in her classroom with all the doors and windows open. Apparently she’s not allowed a blanket from home and the only response from school is to wear layers under uniform

AIBU to think that this is unkind? At work (large multi National company) staff would NOT work in these freezing conditions. How can it be fair to expect young kids to do it and if so, why make them wear flimsy uniforms?

noblegiraffe I reckon it's because the cold is a lot easier to fix. Not that you don't have a point about everything else obviously.

One of the things I remember most (in a bad way) from my childhood is the cold. I still can't cope with being cold even now.

@noblegiraffe

Because being warm enough to concentrate is a percondition of a child being able to learn before any of the other stuff even comes into play.

Indeed, but that doesn’t mean that the other stuff is ok and parents should let it slide, does it?

There’s a thread at the moment where a parent pissed off that her kid doesn’t have a qualified teacher has people queuing up to tell her it’s just fine.

Threads about lack of school funding or similar get tumbleweeds.

Parents should be this angry about the state of schools, all of it, not just the bits that are cold.

I agree with you. I think all of that is appalling.

BUT a warm school environment is a very basic foundation upon which all of that needs to be built, otherwise the rest will be a waste of time for most children even if it was really good quality.

This really is now at the basic level of "is this a safe environment to leave my child in?". Which is shameful. That isn't to say that the "why isn't a decent standard of education being funded?" questions aren't valid. And important. Just that letting children freeze all day long is a new low, that makes all other efforts pointless.

Poor wee buggers

@CheshireChat

noblegiraffe I reckon it's because the cold is a lot easier to fix. Not that you don't have a point about everything else obviously.

One of the things I remember most (in a bad way) from my childhood is the cold. I still can't cope with being cold even now.

Same. I will never forget being cold for weeks on end with no respite, sleeping in my coat, dreading getting out of bed in the morning.

No child should have to go through being cold like that at school in 2021.

How can hospital wards continue operating with the windows closed, but classrooms can't?

Something to do with wearing masks maybe?

And to be clear @noblegiraffe I am furious at the state of school funding, SEN provision, class sizes etc in general. I do agree with most things I see you post. I just feel that when it comes to providing even a warm room for the children to be in and we're now told that's too much to expect... well, my rage goes off the charts. How fucking dare they let these little kids be freezing all day long? While also policing what they can and cannot wear? It's so far beyond unacceptable, it's disgraceful.

@Peas252

How can hospital wards continue operating with the windows closed, but classrooms can't?

Something to do with wearing masks maybe?

Unlikely. If you look at the statistical reduction in transmission from mask wearing in closed environments like this, it is small.

Ventilation makes a big difference but it does not require all doors and windows wide open. Just a small amount to allow air circulation.

The pertinent questions would be why are hospitals NOT opening windows a little to allow ventilation?

And why are schools letting kids freeze rather than providing the small amount of airflow to optimally balance reducing the risk of transmission while also keeping the room heated to an acceptable temperature of 20 celsius +

Answers on a postcard!

@ThousandsOfTulips

And to be clear *@noblegiraffe* I am furious at the state of school funding, SEN provision, class sizes etc in general. I do agree with most things I see you post. I just feel that when it comes to providing even a warm room for the children to be in and we're now told that's too much to expect... well, my rage goes off the charts. How fucking dare they let these little kids be freezing all day long? While also policing what they can and cannot wear? It's so far beyond unacceptable, it's disgraceful.

Do you not realise that teachers/schools can do no wrong on mumsnet? It's always someone else's fault.

How fucking dare they let these little kids be freezing all day long?

Well exactly. It’s not a barrel of fun for teachers either, tbh and I don’t think adults in offices would put up with it.

Like I said upthread, email your MP and ask why windows are open instead of CO2 monitors and air cleaners to identify ventilation issues and fix them.

And then email them again about school funding.

The government won’t listen to teachers, it needs to be parents kicking up a fuss if there’s any hope of change.

Hahaa @Peas252 sorry, I must have missed the memo! My bad.

Do you not realise that teachers/schools can do no wrong on mumsnet?

You must be on a different Mumsnet…

@noblegiraffe

How fucking dare they let these little kids be freezing all day long?

Well exactly. It’s not a barrel of fun for teachers either, tbh and I don’t think adults in offices would put up with it.

Like I said upthread, email your MP and ask why windows are open instead of CO2 monitors and air cleaners to identify ventilation issues and fix them.

And then email them again about school funding.

The government won’t listen to teachers, it needs to be parents kicking up a fuss if there’s any hope of change.

I kick up a fuss about certain things to my MP. Unfortunately she is a Boris Bot, ignores my letters and has blocked me on social media for asking "annoying questions".

If you email them and ask for your complaint to be passed to the Secretary of State for Education, you should get a response from the DfE.

Ok. I will try that. Thank you.

@Thatsplentyjack

It's an absolute joke. Children should not be expected to sit in freezing cold classrooms all day. Nowhere else is doing this but once again children are bottom of the pile and expected yo just suck it up.

Well quite. Maybe they should all be working/learning from home where it can be nice and warm.

Right. So all of their parents should give up the jobs which pay the taxes to have schools and teachers in the first place?

Personally I am vehemently anti lockdown, restrictions and especially school closures. I think it was a huge mistake to close schools.

However, I do think we should be using common sense measures like ventilation and hand washing to help get through the winter period.

Having windows open in a classroom is a common sense measure at this time.

@OwlIceCrem

It’s bullshit. I’ve got rid of my CO2 monitor. I can’t teach and kids can’t learn in those conditions. If it’s a choice between pneumonia and COVID I’ll choose COVID- I’ve been vaccinated against that.

Do you get to make that decision for yourself? Can you overrule whatever health and safety policy is in place? Pretty sure that is a false dilemma by the way

I have a secondaty school child it is a challenge to get him to wear a coat 🙄

@GreenLakes

Personally I am vehemently anti lockdown, restrictions and especially school closures. I think it was a huge mistake to close schools.

However, I do think we should be using common sense measures like ventilation and hand washing to help get through the winter period.

Having windows open in a classroom is a common sense measure at this time.

Ventilation that reduces the risk of infection doesn't require classrooms to have doors and windows wide open and children freezing all day. It's about air circulation. Windows open a small amount - with an adequate increase in heating to compensate and keep the temperature stable at an acceptable level - would work perfectly fine.

I’m sending mine with some of those self warming heat pads and a large scarf to drape over their legs. Obviously we’ll layer up too.
As for what should be done… Anyone working in places like schools should be fully vaccinated if they can, open internal doors all the time and windows occasionally and then accept there’s a level of risk. As per usual this is exactly what other professions have had to do supermarket staff and dentists haven’t decided they can’t work without open windows and CO2 detectors. All this for an illness which mostly doesn’t affect children at all, as a PP said this is only happening because they can force the children into these conditions.

with an adequate increase in heating to compensate

How much extra funding do you think schools have been given to turn the heating up?

Ours goes off at midday.

Exactly. They haven't consented to any of this and it seems their parents don't do so on their behalf, either.

And no, people shouting "pull them out and homeschool them then!" isn't acceptable either. We pay taxes to have them educated in school by teachers and expect that to happen without them coming home every day freezing cold. Which btw - aside from massively damaging their capacity to learn - also puts enormous extra strain on immune systems and makes them more likely to be susceptible to viruses.

What a fucking brilliant idea.

BritneyB you seriously can't be saying dentists are knuckling down and accepting risk in a way that teachers aren't. I haven't been able to take myself or my dc to the dentist since March 2019.
Like most teachers, I do not know how to establish a safe level of airflow through my room. I can't tell just how many windows and how wide gives a safe(r) level for those in the room. Can anyone?

@Cactu

You don’t need to have ALL the doors and windows open to ventilate a room. Having just the top windows open a bit will do the trick and not affect the room temperature too much. They’re going totally over board.

I only have top opening windows. Even just slightly open the classroom was quickly below 16 degrees this morning. But Covid is rapidly spreading through my class at the moment so all I can do is urge the kids to bring warm clothes and layers to wear. The CO2 monitor hits red as soon as the windows are shut so I’m stuck between a rock and a hard place trying to keep everyone safe. 😐