Freezing schools

[Ineedapuppy]

DD8 has cried this afternoon at how cold it is in her classroom with all the doors and windows open. Apparently she’s not allowed a blanket from home and the only response from school is to wear layers under uniform

AIBU to think that this is unkind? At work (large multi National company) staff would NOT work in these freezing conditions. How can it be fair to expect young kids to do it and if so, why make them wear flimsy uniforms?

ThousandsOfTulips it's horrible, I'm sorry you went through that as well.

@CheshireChat

ThousandsOfTulips it's horrible, I'm sorry you went through that as well.

Thank you. It way one of the worst parts of my life and I will never forget it and I'll be damned if my DC ever have to experience it! So sorry that you went through that, too.

It was freezing in my classroom today. The heat from the radiators went straight out the open windows.

We all had jumpers and coats on and actually looked forward to going outside where we could at least move around more to warm up.

looking at the data as to how much in your particular environment windows need to be opened to ensure adequate ventilation.

Schools have not been requested to do this, nor provided with the equipment or funding to do so.

Now that schools are starting to receive CO2 monitors and are asking the DfE what exactly to do with the information that classrooms are poorly ventilated, the DfE’s response has been to tell them to buy air cleaners, but again given them no funding to do this.

Yes it's cold for the kids but just layer them up.

On 26th Nov my DD will be outside all day for learning and it's going to be 6 degrees and raining so she's going to school in a pink ski suit as they've been told they are outside no matter the weather.

I've worked outside overnight in -7 sitting in the one position so I'm sure she'll cope.

@ThousandsOfTulips schools don't have ventilation systems. Most are in buildings 50-60 years old, many are in buildings hundreds of years old. The ventilation system is "open a window".
And I've worked in education for 25 years and never seen a thermometer in a classroom!

Do people not get how poorly resourced, ventilated and ramshackle some school buildings are?

My DD is in a school building that's about 10 years old.

However when I was at primary school our school was very old (my grandmother went to same one in the 30s) and it was freezing all the time no matter what. If it had to have windows open all the time it would be inhumane to put children in.

@GrandTheftWalrus

Yes it's cold for the kids but just layer them up.

On 26th Nov my DD will be outside all day for learning and it's going to be 6 degrees and raining so she's going to school in a pink ski suit as they've been told they are outside no matter the weather.

I've worked outside overnight in -7 sitting in the one position so I'm sure she'll cope.

Great.

An how do you expect her to learn on days when indoor learning is required, at the same temperature, wearing a ski suit and ski gloves? Great for handwriting practice.

I do think some people complain if the temperature isn’t a year round 22 degrees but there does have to be some sort of balance. It was a relief when schools shut last year purely due to the temperature in the classroom. If I’m working sat motionless at a desk I feel cold below 16/ 17 degrees. And yes I wear jeans, thermal and jumper. It gets a lot colder than that in the winter with the windows open. There’s got to be some sort of plan for when the temperature drops.

[quote Haskell]@ThousandsOfTulips schools don't have ventilation systems. Most are in buildings 50-60 years old, many are in buildings hundreds of years old. The ventilation system is "open a window".
And I've worked in education for 25 years and never seen a thermometer in a classroom![/quote]
Not all schools are that old. Hence my comment that each school needs a risk assessment to balance the benefits of ventilation against their ability to heat it to an acceptable temperature. I am struggling to see any situation where optimal ventilation versus temperature management would mean windows and doors open wide all day in winter but would be happy to review any evidence for this and be proved wrong if you have it?

Children will not be able to learn if they are freezing cold. Please, decent teachers, stop being complicit in this. It won't help you not to catch Covid. Ventilation means air circulation from windows being open a crack. Not children freezing all winter effectively being taught in outside conditions.

Classrooms are very cold even with the windows open a crack rather than wide open with doors open too.

Classrooms were cold before covid as well, tbh. I certainly had classes in coats before all this.

Thinking about it, a huge amount of learning time is lost in the summer as well due to classrooms being way too hot.

Schools aren’t fit for purpose.

@noblegiraffe

Classrooms are very cold even with the windows open a crack rather than wide open with doors open too.

Classrooms were cold before covid as well, tbh. I certainly had classes in coats before all this.

Yes. I agree. I remember turning on and opening the ovens in one room that was my form room and happened to be a cookery room as well, to warm it up.

It's always been crap, but the idea of wide open windows and doors all winter will obviously make it much worse, and crosses the line into unacceptable.

I'm all for banning private school "charities" (ahem) so that all children go to state schools, and then you can bet your bottom dollar they'd all be funded properly quick smart.

In the interim though, I am very much against children being freezing cold because of the threat of a virus that poses very minimal risk to them.

I have not read the complete thread but this is mad. There is a huge difference between walking or playing in the cold, and sitting in the cold. You can get really chilled even if you are wearing layers.

People always say “oh, what are you complain about, we never had heating when I was a child” - yes, but in the past children were constantly getting chillblains, respiratory infections, etc.

@ThousandsOfTulips she won't be wearing ski gloves. Just the outfit to keep her warm and dry outside all day. She'll just have her normal gloves on. I'm not sure what the outdoor learning involves as they haven't told us other than warm waterproof clothing. So I asked the HT if the ski suit could be worn and she said yes.

She is in primary 1 and so far they've learned the basics in writing etc. Letters etc. They aren't onto words yet.

Indoor learning she wears her normal uniform with a cardigan that's normally in her bag come home time so I'm not sure how ventilated her classroom is.

Today's learning however she was pictured in a seat pretending to read to a doll. So I don't think they are sat at a desk all day.

@Notcontent

I have not read the complete thread but this is mad. There is a huge difference between walking or playing in the cold, and sitting in the cold. You can get really chilled even if you are wearing layers.

People always say “oh, what are you complain about, we never had heating when I was a child” - yes, but in the past children were constantly getting chillblains, respiratory infections, etc.

Indeed. Most people aspire to a better life for their children, not for them to go back to the hardships endured by their grandparents and great-grandparents.

On cold days DS wears a long sleeved merino vest, under armour leggings (like boys footless tights), fleece-lined open hem joggers that resemble school trousers, thermal socks, fur lined shoes and a school fleece to go over his jumper if still cold.

I've yet to see any teacher say they have windows and doors "wide open all day". No one will tell me whether three (tiny) windows is enough, or five, or seven. On a day with more bodies in the room so I need more windows open? Would seem logical at some point.
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I'm sorry, but that is just appalling. Lots of people are back in busy offices and shops and factories and all kinds of other busy work environments now and are accepting some risk is part of life.* Don't you dare tell me or any other teachers on here that we need to accept some risk is part of life. What do you think we have been doing since this pandemic began? I worked with key workers children. I worked back at full capacity for months with no vaccine in sight. I work now with no isolation so A's sister is in my class even though her siblings B and C are both off with Covid. I am not in the only job that has accepted risk, or the one that has accepted most risk. But you think to compare us to office workers and tell us to buck up our standards? My office workers friends are still at home till the spring.

Being honest, bar masks in communal areas when people remember, and noting how many are off at any particular point covid is all but forgotten in our school.

They have plans of the building, how the ventilation system works and where the intake it, where it is purified (if at all) etc. It has to be serviced annually.
The ventilation system in all but one building in my school is the windows. Some of those windows don't open by design. In the one building with a system, it's been broken since it was installed.

@StormyTeacups

Being honest, bar masks in communal areas when people remember, and noting how many are off at any particular point covid is all but forgotten in our school.

Which is pretty stupid.

I’m not disputing for a second that some schools aren’t fit for purpose, but there are also a lot of brand new schools that have opened in the last decade or so.

Whether they are fit for purpose or not is another matter but they aren’t ramshackle old buildings at all.

@Magicalwoodlands

Only 1/3 of our school is new build, the rest is in a terrible condition- at least in the old part we can open windows wide!

We were in very close contact with a family outdoors who went on to test positive for covid a day later. We never caught it even though the kids were shoulder to shoulder. Ventilation works.