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Original poster

legacy benefits court case

138 replies

Mychocolateteapotsmelted · 19/11/2021 06:26

Its for the 20 pounds uplift that universal credit claimants got and people on legacy benefits didn't get..the case started yesterday and ends today.

OP posts:
Jhon5912 · 21/11/2021 14:22

My dads Income Support was cut off on 30th November at 66 bithday Now waiting his first state pension, I guess if they win this uplift and good luck and thanks to them for fighting this, They will be no uplift backpay for him?

Colin7691 · 21/11/2021 15:46

@Jhon5912

My dads Income Support was cut off on 30th November at 66 bithday Now waiting his first state pension, I guess if they win this uplift and good luck and thanks to them for fighting this, They will be no uplift backpay for him?
He will still get it if he were entitled to it as it would cover the period up to the uplift ending earlier this year. Tell him to check out of he is entitled to Pension Credit too, especially if he has any disability premiums on his ESA, or gets PIP or DLA.
Mummysgoingcrazy · 21/11/2021 16:15

I had to leave work to care for hubby and kids. Legacy benefits but obviously lost the wtc. We get CTC, pip, and my carer's allowance. No £500 for us so that must have just been on WTC. Really hoping we get awarded something, money's so tight.

Jhon5912 · 21/11/2021 16:23

Hi Colin

I see that's grate many thanks for your answer, sadly he's bean through the works over pass 7 weeks in hospital with pneumonia, liver issues, and a brain bleed that had an brain bleed, glad he's with me / us and lucky to have survived, meaning he's still can't talk on a normal level.

And thanks, me and me sister also applied for pip for him however he may get backpay and then put on attendance allowance, we will see

Jhon5912 · 21/11/2021 16:27

"brain bleed Opration" ^

Jhon5912 · 21/11/2021 16:32

"Tell him to check out of he is entitled to Pension Credit too, especially if he has any disability premiums on his ESA, or gets PIP or DLA."

Edit, Not he did not originally have any of these.

Thehop · 21/11/2021 16:33

Why did people on UC get the extra £20 a week in the first place? I never read the reason.

If there was good reason for it I honestly don’t see the difference and it should have been across t board.

JustLyra · 22/11/2021 17:42

@Thehop

Why did people on UC get the extra £20 a week in the first place? I never read the reason.

If there was good reason for it I honestly don’t see the difference and it should have been across t board.

It was to help people with the lowest incomes cope with the extra costs of the pandemic.

Things like suddenly being home all the time and needing to heat their house rather than being at work and kids at school.
Extra food costs. Extra electricity costs.

It should have been across the board, but the government will take any opportunity to try and force people to choose to switch because they'll lose their migration protection.

Dishwashersaurous · 22/11/2021 18:09

The argument for it being UC is that UC is an in work benefit and that furlough only paid 80%. So in theory it's to make up for the difference in being furloughed

XenoBitch · 22/11/2021 18:13

@Dishwashersaurous

The argument for it being UC is that UC is an in work benefit and that furlough only paid 80%. So in theory it's to make up for the difference in being furloughed
Everyone claiming UC got the uplift, not just people that are working. I got it (am in LCWRA) despite my costs not increasing due to being stuck at home (because I was always home anyway).
Dishwashersaurous · 22/11/2021 18:16

The systems wouldn't allow UC to differentiate between not working and working. Hence everyone got it.

(I'm just explaining the logic not agreeing)

Dishwashersaurous · 22/11/2021 18:17

And technically someone can be LCWRA and working as well

2020isnotbehaving · 22/11/2021 18:19

UC and furlough totally different things. Many on furlough would not been able claim a penny. Maybe if you had few kids and very low wage so 80% mim wage would leave you short. The point of furlough was stop millions piling on the benefit system and frankly holding up the notice that hard working people don’t claim benefits.

CorrBlimeyGG · 22/11/2021 18:26

@Dishwashersaurous That was not what Sunak said at the time:

"We are starting a great national effort to protect jobs. But the truth is we are already seeing job losses. And there may be more to come.

I cannot promise you that no one will face hardship in the weeks ahead.

So we will also act to protect you if the worst happens.

To strengthen the safety net, I’m increasing today the Universal Credit standard allowance, for the next 12 months, by £1,000 a year."

He specifically referenced UC increasing to help people when they were out of work.

www.gov.uk/government/speeches/the-chancellor-rishi-sunak-provides-an-updated-statement-on-coronavirus

Colin7691 · 22/11/2021 18:32

Everyone claiming UC got the uplift, not just people that are working. I got it (am in LCWRA) despite my costs not increasing due to being stuck at home (because I was always home anyway).

For anyone unsure what this is about, thats the crux of this case.
Someone on UC with LCWRA got the uplift. Someone on ESA with LCWRA didn't. Now while someone only claiming ESA (ie now DLA or PIP) could have transferred to UC at any point, someone who also got PIP or DLA could not move over at the start of the pandemic, and couldn't until January of this year.

So the argument is, it is discriminatory as anyone who had already transferred from a legacy benefit to UC got the uplift, or anyone who didn't have any disability premiums could do so immediately, and would get the uplift.
If you are disabled the you couldn't migrate to UC, and therefore couldn't get the uplift. That is, on the face of it, discrimination against disabled claimants and what this case is about.

Colin7691 · 22/11/2021 18:36

@Dishwashersaurous

The systems wouldn't allow UC to differentiate between not working and working. Hence everyone got it.

(I'm just explaining the logic not agreeing)

Unless UC have the most rubbish computer systems in the world, and have less power than a Commodore Pet, then I think most people know that is bull :)

if income > 0.00 then +80.00 basic allowance

there you go Sunak, fixed it

RandomLondoner · 22/11/2021 18:43

@Dishwashersaurous

The argument for it being UC is that UC is an in work benefit and that furlough only paid 80%. So in theory it's to make up for the difference in being furloughed
This reason doesn't make sense to me. UC is by design a benefit that is supposed to accommodate itself to month-to-month fluctuations in work income.

Also the amount, was £20, not 20%, and it went to everyone, not only furloughed worker, so there's really no match between the uplift and work income reductions anyway.

takingmytimeonmyride · 22/11/2021 20:31

I'm on income support, carers allowance and tax credits as I care my 19 yo son. I'm sure the government will do their very best to wheedle their way out of paying so I'm not holding out any hope of getting any money from them.

Musereader · 22/11/2021 20:54

Point of fact, not everyone on UC had the benefit of the uplift, anyone affected by the benefit cap while they had it added in the entitlement, had it deducted in the cap.

Also anyone on transitional protection due to having the premiums on legacy benefits had the transitional element reduced by it, so that means anyone blocked from applying for UC because of the premiums, would not have had the uplift either. Even if they switched.

Also some people have dual ESA/UC claims or dual JSA/UC, so you would have to exclude those people from getting any of the backpack (or more likely give them back pay and then charge and overpayment on UC to get it back)

Colin7691 · 22/11/2021 21:13

@Musereader

Point of fact, not everyone on UC had the benefit of the uplift, anyone affected by the benefit cap while they had it added in the entitlement, had it deducted in the cap.

Also anyone on transitional protection due to having the premiums on legacy benefits had the transitional element reduced by it, so that means anyone blocked from applying for UC because of the premiums, would not have had the uplift either. Even if they switched.

Also some people have dual ESA/UC claims or dual JSA/UC, so you would have to exclude those people from getting any of the backpack (or more likely give them back pay and then charge and overpayment on UC to get it back)

Neither of those things affect the current case though, as in both cases the entitlement was there, whereas it wasn't for legacy benefits.

The dual claims wouldn't be affected by this ruling if the claimant succeeds surely, as aren't all dual claims contribution based on the legacy benefit side of it? As far as I'm aware you cannot claim income based JSA or ESA whilst claiming UC?

Dishwashersaurous · 23/11/2021 08:15

You can't claim income based esa or jsa and UC.

But you can claim contributions based esa and jsa

Moonemoji · 23/11/2021 20:10

It is so helpful just to hear of others left out of this sad system. The £1550 is being waved about in the press but the ESA and legacy benefits have always been given a hard time. :( Zero points assessments, brown envelope sanctions, benefits freeze for five years. It is an old Labour Party benefit that they just put the boot into all the time. Their argument is probably that we have been claiming longer than UC cohort. I admire the legal fight and the patience shown by so many people.

Original poster
Mychocolateteapotsmelted · 28/11/2021 12:11

Still no news..I wonder when the decision will be made.It will be a great help for peoples heating etc this year.

OP posts:
LakieLady · 28/11/2021 12:27

@TheHateIsNotGood

Just to clarify something with regards to being a Carer in receipt of Carer's Allowance and now claiming UC.

Although a Carer's Premium is added to the Standard Rate UC, this is mostly removed because any Carers Allowance received is deducted.

My criticism of this is:

If I didn't have to Care for a disabled child/adult I would be fully able now, and for the previous 15 years, to be a full-time participant in the workforce.

So, what little earnings I can muster within my caring responsibilities, are deducted as well as my Carers Allowance too.

Given I'm an LP and have been throughout, so no other income to back up the bills, there is something fundamentally wrong with the UC system as it stands.

Although I do appreciate that some of the changes to the IS/JSA system with regards to employment flexibility are very good.

The carer's element is the UC equivalent of the carer's premium under legacy benefits. That was only payable in means-tested benefits, and the CA was treated as income and deducted.

The UC system treats carers just like the old system did and, while I agree that carers are treated abominably by the benefit system, they haven't actually made it any worse.