legacy benefits court case

[Mychocolateteapotsmelted]

Its for the 20 pounds uplift that universal credit claimants got and people on legacy benefits didn't get..the case started yesterday and ends today.

yes they did cat I was a CTC/WTC claimant at the time and I received the £500. It didn't come with much explanation but I assumed it equated to the £20 uplift received by UC claimants.

I thought IS was gone, but then I was a legacy TC Claimant and know nothing about any other legacy benefits.

I'm now a working(self-employed) UC Claimant, whilst still a Carer for disabled DS, no uplift and it's harsh.

Will be better come next April when they change the % of disregarded earnings to 2/3rds rather than the 1/3rd it is now.

Better still, hopefully I'll be earning enough to not be claiming UC at all, but so far no employer wants me. Who would want a 59 year old who's been self-employed (through necessity) for nearly 20 years when there's so many other options available? I understand that and don't take it to heart.

So, I'll just have to work at home some more, waiting for the Golden Ticket :)

@Mychocolateteapotsmelted

I know a out of work (never worked not claiming for any disability) adult male on universal credit Previously job seekers allowance, who got the 20 pounds uplift. My sister who has a severe disabled child is on income support and got nothing 😢 how is that fair 🤷‍♀️

The £20 thing aside, I'm wanting to point out that being disabled sufficient to qualify for disability benefits isn't the same as being unable to work due to long term illness. So being long term unemployed and not disabled doesn't necessarily mean he's playing the system.

This affects us too, (I’m severely disabled). So, so praying we get this… it’d make Christmas and beyond so much easier!!

I imagine carers was excluded because very few people live on it as sole income. You still either claim old style income support alongside carers (I know they then deduct carers) in which case included in this claim or you get carers and your over all household budget means you don’t get any household benefits.

Agree though when carers did more than ever with little support it would made difference. The fact it’s still less than JSA is beyond belief

@2020isnotbehaving

I imagine carers was excluded because very few people live on it as sole income. You still either claim old style income support alongside carers (I know they then deduct carers) in which case included in this claim or you get carers and your over all household budget means you don’t get any household benefits.

Agree though when carers did more than ever with little support it would made difference. The fact it’s still less than JSA is beyond belief

I didn’t realise you got income support as well as carers 🙈 We are a low income house, partner only works part time in a weather dependant job. We get Child Tax Credits, and Carers, but like you say @2020isnotbehaving Carers seem to be forgotten. We have 2 children with ASN and our costs have gone up dramatically over the past year. £20 a week would have been very handy, as would a lump sum! Xx

I hope it gets approved, cynically seemed like a way to entice people over to UC, many or whom will have been worse off.

@TheHateIsNotGood no they did not. People solely on CTC, ie those on these legacy benefits did not get it.

Just those on WTC must have. Btw I do agree that all income-based benefit recipients should have received an uplift just as those on UC did.

...Even if it goes in favour of the legacy benefits claimants, it cannot compel the government to give them backdated payments.

www.bigissue.com/news/social-justice/dwp-legacy-benefits-freeze-left-disabled-people-living-on-historically-low-payments-court-hears/

I'm not holding out any hope of the government making a single payment.

I’m on old style ESA but contributions based.

Why are they not including contributions based as well?

Genuine question and I really hope everyone gets what they do rightly deserve.

I think contributions based are only for 12months aren’t they? After that it’s on household income. Technically you could also have a very high household income but claim contributions in your own right because of NI contributions and rightly so to get something back out system rather 100% relying on a partner.

But Maybe easier to include those who’s only income is ESA income support and play on the poverty income levels against similar UC. Only those groups have a cast iron this is blatant discrimination verses some government spokesperson saying ah ha some contribution based house holds had incomes of £50,000 and makes it sound like everyone was and no need. Although still unfair I agree

[quote Bingbong21]@TheHateIsNotGood no they did not. People solely on CTC, ie those on these legacy benefits did not get it.[/quote]
We were on child tax credits only, and we got it. 500 equates to 25 weeks with an extra 20.

No longer eligible for anything now (just earning over threshold) so fully expect that we would be missed out if it is agreed that it was unfair and should be adjusted.

@Lancrelady80 you should not have got it. It was explicitly clarified those just on CTC were not eligible. I'm just on CTC and didn't receive it.

It’s nowhere near as complicated to pay it as the government are claiming. They manage with the £10 Christmas bonus every year.

It was a blatant and cynical attempt to get people on legacy benefits to move onto UC without the income protection they’ll get when they are moved by the DWP.

I think contributions based are only for 12months aren’t they? After that it’s on household income.

For ESA it’s only 12 months for those in the WRAG group, for those in the higher support group (so basically the most disabled) there’s no limit to Conts based ESA.

Thanks I wonder why I’m on income based ESA when I was working full time before hand so had enough NI. Maybe only applies when you live with someone else and in support group that rings a bell as before you had nothing.

Just to clarify something with regards to being a Carer in receipt of Carer's Allowance and now claiming UC.

Although a Carer's Premium is added to the Standard Rate UC, this is mostly removed because any Carers Allowance received is deducted.

My criticism of this is:

If I didn't have to Care for a disabled child/adult I would be fully able now, and for the previous 15 years, to be a full-time participant in the workforce.

So, what little earnings I can muster within my caring responsibilities, are deducted as well as my Carers Allowance too.

Given I'm an LP and have been throughout, so no other income to back up the bills, there is something fundamentally wrong with the UC system as it stands.

Although I do appreciate that some of the changes to the IS/JSA system with regards to employment flexibility are very good.

I wouldn't hold out much hope on winning this due to the judge who was allocated.
I thought this was 100% a DWP loss when the case was started, but from the (very limited) press reports, it seems as though the claimants have concentrated on the human rights aspect of it rather than discrimination, which I personally think is the wrong way to have gone about it.

However, it is very hard to get a clear picture of what went on as there has been very little published about it so far, the judgement, when published, will be interesting reading whichever way it goes.

I think if the DWP win, then we will find out in the next 7-14 days. If the claimants win, then more likely 3-4 weeks.

@2020isnotbehaving

Thanks I wonder why I’m on income based ESA when I was working full time before hand so had enough NI. Maybe only applies when you live with someone else and in support group that rings a bell as before you had nothing.

You can get both. Those on conts based can get an income related top up.

Also if you are in WRAG group then after 12 months you move onto income related.

It’s hard believe any legal bod can stand in defence of Gov and argue with all sincerity that they would loved to given it but oh dear computers bit slow. They can tell by few strikes of keyboard who was on what benefit for right time so why not send us all a cheque? They seem manage letters in post easily enough. Love to see how they explain why can’t be fixed after.

But agree I’m not getting my hopes up. They showed us time and time again how treat those at bottom of ladder, can’t see changing any time soon.

So why are people still on legacy benefits?

From the gov website:

"You may get a one-off, tax-free payment of £500 if, on 2 March 2021, you were getting either:

Working Tax Credit

Or

Child Tax Credit and were eligible for Working Tax Credit but you did not get a payment because your income is too high to get Working Tax Credit payments

You do not need to contact HMRC or apply for the payment. HMRC will contact you by text message or letter in April to confirm you are eligible.

If you are eligible, you should get your payment direct to your bank account by 23 April 2021. The payment will appear in your bank statement as ‘HMRC C19 support’. You will not see the payment on the online tax credit service"

We fell into the second category.

@2020isnotbehaving

It’s hard believe any legal bod can stand in defence of Gov and argue with all sincerity that they would loved to given it but oh dear computers bit slow. They can tell by few strikes of keyboard who was on what benefit for right time so why not send us all a cheque? They seem manage letters in post easily enough. Love to see how they explain why can’t be fixed after.

But agree I’m not getting my hopes up. They showed us time and time again how treat those at bottom of ladder, can’t see changing any time soon.

Thats not the main defence though, or at least from whats been written so far, and it would be a stupid one to rely on too, which is probably why they have changed the initial way it seemed to be going.

@mumda people are still on legacy benefits as the full migration hasn't been completed yet. Add to that, legal challenges have stopped some migrations, and covid, have massively impacted the time it should have taken. For example, despite what the DWP are saying, if you had disability premiums on ESA at the start of 2020, you could not transfer to UC, and that restriction wasn't lifted until January this year (so despite the DWP saying anyone who wanted the uplift could have claimed UC, they couldn't). That was because the disability premiums don't exist on UC, and anyone moving over was significantly worse off. A court case that the DWP lost, stopped that, and was why they stopped any migration at that time.

Lancrelady80

Although you only received ctc it sounds like you were entitled to wtc because you have earned income you would get allowance for working and the children then it would be reduced due to the amount you earned so you may only get the ctc amount. It would all be laid out on your award notice but the critical bit for the uplift was that you were entitled to the working tax credit allowance.

I read was to technically difficult and it wasn’t in the aims of fiscal plans. So basically if it didn’t keep the economy afloat and get people “back to work” it didn’t matter as majority us couldn’t and not expected to work. So that was aim
Of £20 lift not to provide people with practically support for high bills.

It’s travesty that disabled people on UC are worse off if they can’t work and if they can. What way screw the system.

Ah, that sounds about right.