....to think my daughter's class has a right to a qualified teacher?

[pokemeinthemorning]

So we had a message tonight on the system to explain what is happening in my daughter's year 5 class. Apparently, their teacher will now be teaching another class because one teacher left two weeks ago and they have said they have 'dispensed of any supply staff'. Basically the TA will be teaching the class for the foreseeable future.
I know there are many dedicated and wonderful TA's who could make great teachers BUT we are not qualified to teach classes on a regular basis.
On questioning my daughter I found out that from the start of this year she has her teacher in class 2 days a week and the rest is taken on by the TA. We were not told about this.
As a TA myself, I know that they often cover classes but this is on a regular basis for a prolonged period of time.

I feel that this is very unfair and they should at least be employing supply teachers in the meantime.

Can't believe there's someone on this thread actually blaming Labour for this shitshow.

No, fifth, unqualified teachers wasn’t part of the Labour academies program. It was Michael Gove in 2012 who gave schools the freedom to hire unqualified teachers.

The idea was that some amazing engineer/physicist who could already teach was desperate to work in state schools but was being put off by the need to do teacher training. This gave heads the power to hire them.

What actually happened was that we ended up with heads hiring anyone with a pulse to have a warm body in front of the kids instead of having to send them home due to no teacher.

@Sowhatifiam

It's only one year of formal training (school or uni based) that separates a 'qualified' teacher from a TA

That might be true in some cases, but certainly not in all. Many TAs don’t have degrees.

I'd say the majority don't. Many have just comes out of school.

come*

@noblegiraffe

No, fifth, unqualified teachers wasn’t part of the Labour academies program. It was Michael Gove in 2012 who gave schools the freedom to hire unqualified teachers.

The idea was that some amazing engineer/physicist who could already teach was desperate to work in state schools but was being put off by the need to do teacher training. This gave heads the power to hire them.

What actually happened was that we ended up with heads hiring anyone with a pulse to have a warm body in front of the kids instead of having to send them home due to no teacher.

Which I think we all predicted would be the case at the time!

@noblegiraffe, Who knew that could possibly happen?!

You are definitely not being unreasonable.
This is happening all over England.

Blame multi academy trusts (employing 'tutors' cheaply and a chronic lack of money. Also, for some reason it is really hard to get supply teachers at all, qualified or not.

I found that the school I taught in had about 30% unqualified staff, and this had a huge knock on effect with behaviour management, workload for the qualified teachers, parent complaints etc etc etc
It was a nightmare.
The MAT model seems to be the preferred model going forward, I can't believe it's been allowed to happen.

So many parents don't realise their child's teacher may be unqualified, it's scary. Schools are obviously not advertising it.

Not the case in other countries in the UK though.

[quote CallmeHendricks]@noblegiraffe, Who knew that could possibly happen?![/quote]
One of the great things about never name changing…

I presume that pre 2012 it was permissible to have sessions taught by those without qualified teacher status? Or did there need to be a teacher present 100% of the time?

Most TAs I know don't have a degree. In fact some have no paper qualifications at all, just an equivalency in Maths and English. Their training is in supporting teaching and learning not actual teaching and while some teach admirably and enjoy it IT'S NOT THEIR JOB!!

Write to the Head and the Chair of Governors asking them to clarify the situation, as TAs aren't allowed to be class teachers in state maintained schools.

@Needdoughnuts

Most TAs I know don't have a degree. In fact some have no paper qualifications at all, just an equivalency in Maths and English. Their training is in supporting teaching and learning not actual teaching and while some teach admirably and enjoy it IT'S NOT THEIR JOB!!

This!

And many older TAs are still there from years ago with no qualifications still on their permanent contracts. The best we get now is 9 months or agency with zero security.

My dd with a high 2:1 from Cambridge is presently working as a TA to see if she wants to teach. SEN specifically. The school have offered her a permanent contract and funding to qualify.

When my DC were at primary SEN and TA responsibilities were delivered by the dinner ladies. Somehow I think things may be improving.

@Needdoughnuts

Most TAs I know don't have a degree. In fact some have no paper qualifications at all, just an equivalency in Maths and English. Their training is in supporting teaching and learning not actual teaching and while some teach admirably and enjoy it IT'S NOT THEIR JOB!!

Same as us. Not one of our TAs have a degree. Most were employed 20+ years ago when their own children were at the school. They may have a handful of O levels (very few have maths) and training done at school in recent years but nothing higher than O level. They are amazing at their jobs, but they aren’t, and shouldn’t be expected to be, teachers.

YANBU. Yes your DD deserves a qualified teacher. But when teachers are told just leave if they don't like the current working conditions, this is the consequence. Not enough teachers to teach our DC. We can't magic them out of the air, so we have lovely TAs to step in and teach for less money than a qualified teacher.

@RosesAndHellebores

My dd with a high 2:1 from Cambridge is presently working as a TA to see if she wants to teach. SEN specifically. The school have offered her a permanent contract and funding to qualify.

When my DC were at primary SEN and TA responsibilities were delivered by the dinner ladies. Somehow I think things may be improving.

That's nice but you and I know it is not the norm!

Every child is entitled to be taught by a qualified teacher. TAs can be great at their jobs but they are support staff and for the most part, instructed and led by the teacher. Teachers either have a 4 year BEd degree or a degree with qualified teacher status or a PGCE after a degree. Then they have their NQT years. It is not easy to train to be a teacher and training is ongoing throughout a teacher's career. Many teachers leave after five years because the demands of the job are too hard, leaving no work/life balance. I've had good TAs and poor. The best one, who I could trust to take over in an emergency for a significant length of time, was a teacher in the past however she was not up-to-date on new methods and expectations. Others could certainly cover basic lessons, if a teacher had to leave the class suddenly and briefly for example, and ensure children were 'on task' but this is simply not the same as teaching complex concepts and ensuring children attain their potential. What some people on this thread fail to realise is that work left for supply teachers, HLTAs and TAs to cover are the easier lessons or simplified tasks. My experience is the vast majority do not have degrees and in some cases do not have qualifications in English and maths. They are taken advantage of when schools are desperate and were relied upon heavily to support during Covid. If no-one complains, it will just keep happening.

We can say "children are entitled to/have a right to...." all we like, but the bottom line is that as schools have been SO starved of cash and conditions in education so awful (and Covid has been the last straw) that the profession is haemorrhaging staff for years.
If there are too few teachers in schools, no supply staff available or money to fund them even if there were and SLT are already in class, then just what are people expecting to happen?
Complaining to the Head just exacerbates the issue - many of them are on a knife-edge anyway and many more complaints will just mean even more of them jacking it in. Then what?

@CallmeHendricks

We can say "children are entitled to/have a right to...." all we like, but the bottom line is that as schools have been SO starved of cash and conditions in education so awful (and Covid has been the last straw) that the profession is haemorrhaging staff for years. If there are too few teachers in schools, no supply staff available or money to fund them even if there were and SLT are already in class, then just what are people expecting to happen? Complaining to the Head just exacerbates the issue - many of them are on a knife-edge anyway and many more complaints will just mean even more of them jacking it in. Then what?

Less properly educated pupils to go on to get good university education and enter the professions. Students who might never realise their full potential. Students who never get an answer to the complex questions and don't understand basics because they haven't been taught properly. Possibly by staff who don't know the answer or subject themselves. We should all be worried.

Well yes.
But some people could ease up on the teacher-bashing as well.
That would help a lot.

@noblegiraffe

No, fifth, unqualified teachers wasn’t part of the Labour academies program. It was Michael Gove in 2012 who gave schools the freedom to hire unqualified teachers.

The idea was that some amazing engineer/physicist who could already teach was desperate to work in state schools but was being put off by the need to do teacher training. This gave heads the power to hire them.

What actually happened was that we ended up with heads hiring anyone with a pulse to have a warm body in front of the kids instead of having to send them home due to no teacher.

As a class teacher way back, I remember waiting hopefully for the platoons of fit squaddies who were going to leave the army and enter teaching. To show us how to be disciplined and focused. We were promised. I think it resulted in a few tens of candidates, who have probably left teaching by now.

"I think it resulted in a few tens of candidates,"

That many?!

@CallmeHendricks

Well yes. But some people could ease up on the teacher-bashing as well. That would help a lot.

Teacher bashing has probably contributed to the problem. I'm not bashing teachers, I'm annoyed that they are not teaching my children in the way I was led to believe because I DO value teachers! This is not the teachers' fault and I can understand why so many are leaving but something needs to be done.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/secondary/2554784-Only-32-Troops-to-Teachers

Thanks, past me. 32 to be precise.

Still, that’s way more than applied for Boris’s Christmas HGV visas so they probably think the program was a roaring success.

@helterskelter3

Anyone saying about management sat doing nothing really needs to spend some time in a school. My friend is a deputy head and is full time DSL, working in child protection. No time to go in class when you’re constantly in CiN meetings, supporting families etc. Schools are plugging the social services gap too…

Another source of chronic underfunding.

My daughter's teacher is also the deputy head! A veritable Octopus 🐙