....to think my daughter's class has a right to a qualified teacher?

[pokemeinthemorning]

So we had a message tonight on the system to explain what is happening in my daughter's year 5 class. Apparently, their teacher will now be teaching another class because one teacher left two weeks ago and they have said they have 'dispensed of any supply staff'. Basically the TA will be teaching the class for the foreseeable future.
I know there are many dedicated and wonderful TA's who could make great teachers BUT we are not qualified to teach classes on a regular basis.
On questioning my daughter I found out that from the start of this year she has her teacher in class 2 days a week and the rest is taken on by the TA. We were not told about this.
As a TA myself, I know that they often cover classes but this is on a regular basis for a prolonged period of time.

I feel that this is very unfair and they should at least be employing supply teachers in the meantime.

@noblegiraffe

No, fifth, unqualified teachers wasn’t part of the Labour academies program. It was Michael Gove in 2012 who gave schools the freedom to hire unqualified teachers.

The idea was that some amazing engineer/physicist who could already teach was desperate to work in state schools but was being put off by the need to do teacher training. This gave heads the power to hire them.

What actually happened was that we ended up with heads hiring anyone with a pulse to have a warm body in front of the kids instead of having to send them home due to no teacher.

Apologies. I stand corrected. I'd forgotten that.

People have been able to work as unqualified teachers for years though haven't they in certain circumstances? My mother in law was employed as an unqualified teacher for years in the 1970s.

@pokemeinthemorning

Then why have they not recruited since September? Clearly there are not enough teachers for the classes.

It depends why there is a vacancy. If the teacher is on long term sick and not covered by insurance or insurance doesn't cover enough then the budget might not allow a proper replacement. If it's short term they just might not have found anyone suitable.

There is a massive teacher shortage because no-one can work 16 hour days.

Responding to a point - how do you know teacher qualifications? A decent school website should list qualifications. I’d ask if there is no information.

@84wood

Responding to a point - how do you know teacher qualifications? A decent school website should list qualifications. I’d ask if there is no information.

Why should it?

NovemberWitch

Don't forget all the failed bankers that were encouraged to join the teaching ranks.

Search cover supervisor vacancies.
I know a state secondary which had 7 supply staff yesterday.

Vacancies for teachers are advertised and cannot be filled.

There are some amazing unqualified teachers but these are experienced and effective. This has to be true or everyone with DC in private would be going mad as private schools have employed unqualified teachers for years.

Feels a bit like a chickens coming home to roost situation unfortunately. I saw so many threads during the pandemic where posters were adamant that schools had to stay open because education took priority over the health of the staff. It was pointed out that schools can't run if the teachers get ill or leave because they don't want to work in a petri dish. It was pointed out that you can't force a person to be a teacher if they don't want to be.

And here we are. This is the reality. If teachers can't be recruited, then I understand why. I have every sympathy because children need and deserve an education, but that means treating the educators with respect rather than looking at them as people who should be conscripted.

@84wood

Responding to a point - how do you know teacher qualifications? A decent school website should list qualifications. I’d ask if there is no information.

I have never worked in a school which has listed staff qualifications on the website!

The only schools I have ever seen that list staff qualifications have been private ones - presumably because they want to make clear that they have qualified staff even though they don't need to.

@noblegiraffe

No, fifth, unqualified teachers wasn’t part of the Labour academies program. It was Michael Gove in 2012 who gave schools the freedom to hire unqualified teachers.

The idea was that some amazing engineer/physicist who could already teach was desperate to work in state schools but was being put off by the need to do teacher training. This gave heads the power to hire them.

What actually happened was that we ended up with heads hiring anyone with a pulse to have a warm body in front of the kids instead of having to send them home due to no teacher.

DN’s future secondary school does have some excellent TAs for maths, science, and engineering - mostly Indian grads who live locally and are waiting to start their masters. Her primary is also full of highly experienced teachers from India who work as TAs instead of qualifying because it fits in with family life. It’s part of the reason why, despite there being a teacher shortage, every single primary and secondary school in all of the local Indian areas is outstanding.

DN’s future secondary school does have some excellent TAs for maths, science, and engineering - mostly Indian grads who live locally and are waiting to start their masters. Her primary is also full of highly experienced teachers from India who work as TAs instead of qualifying because it fits in with family life. It’s part of the reason why, despite there being a teacher shortage, every single primary and secondary school in all of the local Indian areas is outstanding.

These are the right kind of immigrants, quite unlike those from the European Union, or people so desperate they would get in a rubber dinghy to cross the channel.
We need more of this sort of immigrant, the kind that will happily do skilled work for a fraction of the cost of a British worker, thus saving the government money which could be better spaffed on pointless white elephants and the mates of ministers.

The difference will be that the TA won't be doing any of the planning, the teacher will be planning and the TA implementing. How good is the TA? Some are fantastic and I wouldn't have a problem with it but plenty of others it wouldn't work at all with. It's not ideal IMO but an experienced TA in some cases can be better at delivering the curriculum than a newly qualified teacher.

Nan
The TA will end up doing it all because there is no way a teacher can do their job AND do all the prep and planning fur another class.

@jgw1

DN’s future secondary school does have some excellent TAs for maths, science, and engineering - mostly Indian grads who live locally and are waiting to start their masters. Her primary is also full of highly experienced teachers from India who work as TAs instead of qualifying because it fits in with family life. It’s part of the reason why, despite there being a teacher shortage, every single primary and secondary school in all of the local Indian areas is outstanding.

These are the right kind of immigrants, quite unlike those from the European Union, or people so desperate they would get in a rubber dinghy to cross the channel.
We need more of this sort of immigrant, the kind that will happily do skilled work for a fraction of the cost of a British worker, thus saving the government money which could be better spaffed on pointless white elephants and the mates of ministers.

Blame the UK government for not recognising certain Indian teaching qualifications. It must be awful for them too, to have 10 years experience in class sizes of 30-50 where the majority not only passed their exams they got over 90%, to then get demoted to a TA for a ‘qualified teacher’ who has 2-3 years experience and gets all the credit for their work.

@nohouseyet

You are not being unreasonable, the school should cut its budget elsewhere, your child should be taught by a teacher and the if the school have budgeting issues they should be cutting elsewhere, not teaching staff. Is it an academy / free school? This is the problem when schools don’t have proper oversight and accountability in place. This would never happen in a million years in my LA maintained school.

Exactly. The Tories had to find a way to destroy the limited power teaching unions had, so they have dismantled the Local Authority School system in many places and its a free-for-all.

I know a lot of TAs that have quit since the pandemic started and the full effects of Brexit finally kicked in. They can make more money and receive more appreciation in lots of places that aren't schools. Our school is really, really struggling to hold on to TAs and find people who can fill the now empty roles, not helped by the fact that they receive no training, not support and are asked to work well beyond their pay grade, so to speak, for no extra money.

pokemeinthemorning
We should all be worried.

yes we should.

But teachers have been saying for years that this is a problem and get called all sorts of names for brining up what is now a major problem.

I’m a teacher currently working in a charity with children part time. Makes me think I should register for supply for my day off!

Just had another thought. If your school employ teach first they are unqualified too. Few weeks before hand and straight into teaching full classes!

TAs shouldn't have to take classes long term. They aren't paid the same and it's not fair on them. Cover teachers are in short supply as they were sometimes older teachers who just wanted to work part-time. I used to work in this way but, at my age, wouldn't enter a school given the current working conditions: no masks, ventilation etc. So, schools are probably losing out on the older cover/supply teachers.

I’m a TA that covers my class one day a week and other days as needed. I am much more able to teach the students who I know very well in a school I know very well (and with planning support from colleagues in the school) than any supply teacher. I am a teacher not qualified in this country, but have a degree and experience in another country and been a TA for several years in this country. It really depends on the staff and situation. I wouldn’t say a qualified supply teacher is always a better option.

I think it's awful,for the TA, are they giving her/him a pay increase

Not good for your dd either

You are absolutely not being unreasonable but I know several teachers across the country who tell me those who leave the profession are harder & harder to replace because few people are prepared to do the job. Covid showed far too many of them how poorly this govt thinks of them & they’ve had enough.
Sadly I can’t blame them. This country doesn’t value or listen to people who actually do the job.