....to think my daughter's class has a right to a qualified teacher?

[pokemeinthemorning]

So we had a message tonight on the system to explain what is happening in my daughter's year 5 class. Apparently, their teacher will now be teaching another class because one teacher left two weeks ago and they have said they have 'dispensed of any supply staff'. Basically the TA will be teaching the class for the foreseeable future.
I know there are many dedicated and wonderful TA's who could make great teachers BUT we are not qualified to teach classes on a regular basis.
On questioning my daughter I found out that from the start of this year she has her teacher in class 2 days a week and the rest is taken on by the TA. We were not told about this.
As a TA myself, I know that they often cover classes but this is on a regular basis for a prolonged period of time.

I feel that this is very unfair and they should at least be employing supply teachers in the meantime.

@Benjispruce5

If they had QTS I’m sure the school would make it clear to parents.

That is what I'd have expected but this was not mentioned at all in the message. It would reassure parents if they knew.

@Mrbob

TA not paid or qualified to teach (even if they are awesome at their job) and that is exploitation It seems pointless sending a child to school if they don’t have a teacher surely. I cannot quite believe what a shit show England is these days. Poor kids. And poor TA

Wales here. :(

@underneaththeash

The UK spends a decent % of GDP on education. Same as Canada and more than other European Countries such as France and Germany. (google it) Is the teacher a higher level TA? If not, she can't cover the classes. If she is she can only teach the classes for a "short period" of time.

I'd get together with some of the other parents and write to the head/governors. Remind them that an HLA's responsibilities are:

To complement the professional work of teachers by taking responsibility for agreed learning activities under an agreed system of supervision. This may involve planning, preparing and delivering learning activities for individuals/groups or short-term for whole classes…”
Not to teach full-time. Teachers in the UK in state schools are legally required to be qualified.

Yes, both the UK and Canda spend 5.5% but the UK includes funding for 2 year old, which many countries class as childcare for funding as well as university funding. I will looking into what Canda and others countries including in their funding tomorrow.

www.publicfinance.co.uk/news/2019/01/academy-schools-not-accountable-enough

Isn’t this part of the problem with funding? Gove refused to cap the pay of academy heads. All a complete mess

@jackiebenimble

Several of the TAs at my kids school are former teachers so are fully qualified. So we dont get told much about changes like this.

Fully qualified teachers working for a TA rate of pay? What on earth has happened to this country - when I was growing up the unions had real heft (too much, hence Mrs Thatcher getting elected three times on the trot on the promise of sorting them out) and now the employers hold all the cards. Appalling situation.

@beigebrownblue are we really meant to believe that someone who clearly doesn’t understand the GCSE grading system has such super duper experience in schools? No such thing as an A* which somewhat blows your cover.

@Appuskidu

Not true at all. I know as I'm currently employed as one!

As far as I know, the old HLTA course isn’t run any more. Heads can employ anyone they like, and call them an HLTA. We have TAs with no TA qualifications who are ‘deemed’ to be an HLTA when it comes to covering for absent staff because there’s no one else to do it.

@Appuskidu maybe it depends on authorities as the course is still run here, I know someone doing it

For £9.60 an hour TAs in my school teach whenever they are asked, sometimes for weeks on end, plan, deliver, mark, assess. No overtime and no TA to assist. If you say no you are busted down a level but even then they still ask! Bear in mind the TA may only have a few weeks of working in a school under his or her belt and have no proven strategy for classroom management or lesson delivery because you can gain a level 3 qualification just by volunteering a couple of times a week! So not necessarily an ex-teacher or experienced TA. In the old days if you were asked to take a class for the afternoon there would either be time off in lieu or extra pay.
This is not fair on TAs and I wish parents would kick up a stink. It doesn't matter if the TA is an ex-teacher, they will still be on the TA salary. Definitely exploitative and it also devalues the teaching profession itself!

In my school over half the TA's used to be teachers. They'd all had enough of the lack of work/life balance and stress but didn't want to give up working with the children. They all have partners who earn very decent wages though so could afford the massive reduction in pay. You can't live off a TA wage. All TA's I know (myself included) either have partners who shoulder most of the household income or they have 2/3 jobs.
I agree with a poster above. Everyone needs to stop voting Tory!

There are no teachers to recruit. No supply teachers. No permanent teachers. If we advertise for a class teacher, we are lucky to get two applicants.

In the past, we've recruit from abroad, with no in person interview and obvs no British teaching qualification.

We're a training school, which is the only reason we ever fill vacancies. But then people quit. Or have babies. We've had our first mid-year resignation this week. She's got no job to go to, but she just couldn't keep going.

Oh, and the best class 'teacher' in my school is an unqualified TA. We've got loads of great teachers but if you could choose for your child, you'd choose her. No doubt. She's paid as an unqualified teacher- higher pay than HLTA and for whole year.

@HaroldSteptoesHorse

The TA will be told and know the planning for each lesson. They will deliver it as the teacher would. Wouldn’t worry too much unless you feel dc is being taught as they should be

I wish this was true, it's often not the case and they are expected to do a lot more

Dont worry, apparently all the schools in the UK are being bought up by China and then you'll have much bigger problems regarding the way your children are brainwashed in communism.

I resigned due to being put in charge of classes from YrR to Yr6 , at the drop of a hat, every single day.

Majority of teachers do not do a full week in class, excluding PPS.

Couldn't take it any more. Particularly as I was paid barely minimum wage.

I'm a TA. I'm also a qualified teacher from days gone by so I'd be fine teaching the class... the year team will be supporting with the planning aspect.

@ChloeDecker

I agree with you Soontobe60 but they might already be, in another class (as is the case in my DD’s primary currently and in my secondary, the DH and Head are doing so much cover but there’s just too much currently that it’s still not enough sadly)

Yup that's what happening in our school, they are already teaching.

@Appuskidu maybe it depends on authorities as the course is still run here, I know someone doing it

Sorry, my error and I phrased that poorly-courses may still be run in some areas (not mine), but they aren’t government funded and there’s no requirement to have the qualification, to be employed as one in a school. We have nobody who had done the course but still have people called HLTAs in my school. They are just used as pitifully cheap cover, under the guise of being ‘Higher Level’. They aren’t.

@pokemeinthemorning

I understand that many TAs are former teachers but they must be paid much less as a TA. If they are paid less then surely the responsibility shouldn't be the same.

Exactly, I feel sorry for the TA if she is being expected to replace a qualified teacher or be instead of a supply teacher and is still getting TA pay!

[quote Appuskidu]**@Appuskidu maybe it depends on authorities as the course is still run here, I know someone doing it

Sorry, my error and I phrased that poorly-courses may still be run in some areas (not mine), but they aren’t government funded and there’s no requirement to have the qualification, to be employed as one in a school. We have nobody who had done the course but still have people called HLTAs in my school. They are just used as pitifully cheap cover, under the guise of being ‘Higher Level’. They aren’t.[/quote]
@Appuskidu oh I understand, I agree, teaching on the cheap.

@Needdoughnuts

For £9.60 an hour TAs in my school teach whenever they are asked, sometimes for weeks on end, plan, deliver, mark, assess. No overtime and no TA to assist. If you say no you are busted down a level but even then they still ask! Bear in mind the TA may only have a few weeks of working in a school under his or her belt and have no proven strategy for classroom management or lesson delivery because you can gain a level 3 qualification just by volunteering a couple of times a week! So not necessarily an ex-teacher or experienced TA. In the old days if you were asked to take a class for the afternoon there would either be time off in lieu or extra pay. This is not fair on TAs and I wish parents would kick up a stink. It doesn't matter if the TA is an ex-teacher, they will still be on the TA salary. Definitely exploitative and it also devalues the teaching profession itself!

This is shocking and the reason why I'm concerned. There is quite a lot of studying to do for L3 but very little practical experience required. I don't recall doing much, if anything, on classroom management. It's all focused on supporting not leading.

I have a degree and quite a few years experience in schools but I am weak in maths and avoid placements in secondary because of this. I know my limits. I am not qualified to take a class, I am qualified to support.

@beatrice82

I'm a TA. I'm also a qualified teacher from days gone by so I'd be fine teaching the class... the year team will be supporting with the planning aspect.

And happy to be on a TA salary or do you get a teacher's salary and PPA?

@noblegiraffe

Michael Gove took away children's right to a qualified teacher.

Surely this happened under the previous Labour Government, which set up the first Academies?

A lot of TAs are brilliant and better than some supply teachers. But I understand your concerns. Raise them with the head and hopefully they’ll be able to reassure/confirm the TAs ability. X

@MainRd

Gosh! Well then I’d suggest a very very strongly worded letter to the LA. They should be supporting the schools, a) keeping oversight of their budgeting and b) divvying out more money when it is needed. They will have to find it from elsewhere- send in an advisory teacher to cover, for example.

@nohouseyet
So much misinformation.
LA's do support maintained schools and academies under statutory duties.
They do have oversight of school budgets, governing boards cannot legally run with a deficit, licensed deficits and in serious cases LA control of budgets are in place.

'Divvy out more money' - brilliant - from where? - given the huge Tory cuts to Local Authority's. In my LA, 2 out of every 3 schools have a licensed deficit. ( not enough money to run the school).

'Send in an advisory teacher' - again who? Restructured out to save money. Senior advisers are cut to the bone too and have statutory duties to fulfil.

I agree all children should be entitled long term to a qualified teacher, however that right is being eroded. Academies do not have to have a qualified teacher, though neither do private schools.

Locally schools are reverting to online through a shortage of teachers.

@MainRd I am ready to admit that I don’t know how academies operate. If LAs do in fact have oversight of how they spend their money … well, what can I say? I am 100% in agreement with you that the funding of education is shambolic.

I take exception to your sweeping accusation of misinformation however. My suggestion was that finance be found by schools by sending non-teaching management staff back to teach in the classroom. This is something I know about: I am a deputy headteacher.
There are also advisory teachers where I work: I am married to one.
So just because my view doesn’t match your experience, does not make it misinformation.

Surely this happened under the previous Labour Government, which set up the first Academies?

www.theguardian.com/education/2012/jul/27/gove-academies-unqualified-teaching-staff

It's only one year of formal training (school or uni based) that separates a 'qualified' teacher from a TA

That might be true in some cases, but certainly not in all. Many TAs don’t have degrees.