....to think my daughter's class has a right to a qualified teacher?

[pokemeinthemorning]

So we had a message tonight on the system to explain what is happening in my daughter's year 5 class. Apparently, their teacher will now be teaching another class because one teacher left two weeks ago and they have said they have 'dispensed of any supply staff'. Basically the TA will be teaching the class for the foreseeable future.
I know there are many dedicated and wonderful TA's who could make great teachers BUT we are not qualified to teach classes on a regular basis.
On questioning my daughter I found out that from the start of this year she has her teacher in class 2 days a week and the rest is taken on by the TA. We were not told about this.
As a TA myself, I know that they often cover classes but this is on a regular basis for a prolonged period of time.

I feel that this is very unfair and they should at least be employing supply teachers in the meantime.

Blame the UK government for not recognising certain Indian teaching qualifications. It must be awful for them too, to have 10 years experience in class sizes of 30-50 where the majority not only passed their exams they got over 90%, to then get demoted to a TA for a ‘qualified teacher’ who has 2-3 years experience and gets all the credit for their work.

Teachers from India can work for 4 years here, without Qualified Teacher Status. In that time, they can take the assessment only route to Qualified Teacher Status if they wish to, which is beneficial due to the need to learn a completely different school system/curriculum/exam specifications.

Of course, they don’t need to do any of this if in a free school, academy or if a Headteacher thinks they are qualified enough anyway.

[quote saraclara]...and TAs covering classes @Appuskidu

neu.org.uk/advice/hltas-and-cover-supervisors[/quote]
I’m not sure if you meant to reply to me, but it’s interesting reading!

Oops. Sorry @Appuskidu! @cherish123 quoted you, and confused me.

Here you are @cherish123

fullfact.org/education/unqualified-teachers/

neu.org.uk/advice/hltas-and-cover-supervisors

@nohouseyet

It makes my blood boil to think of qualified teachers sitting in offices raking in huge salaries in education management while the goods aren’t being delivered on the shop floor. Grr!

We get support from the head of pastoral care at my DD's school who is a non-teaching teacher in SLT. She is worth her weight in gold. There is no way she could provide the support to us and the many other families if she had a class to teach.

So much half baked thinking on here.

If you are happy for a TA to be teaching, what is the argument for requiring a graduate and QTS?

Can any old mucker rock up to have a go at providing your child's education?

The TA who took my ds's class had a second job in the pub. Yes she knew the kids, they loved her, she was popular. What she wasn't, was educated. Or qualified.

While teachers tolerate being exploited, treated like children themselves, exposed to all sorts of stress - then this is the result.

While parents don't demand high standards of education, elect an elitist government with the morals of a pick pocket and are complacent and apathetic - then this is the result.

The government spent over 2 billion last year on PPE contracts for their friends that didn't deliver any usable PPE.

So don't anyone say there's no budget. There's plenty of our taxpayers money, just not for us plebs.

In the immortal words of the Manic Street Preachers, if you'll tolerate this, then your children will be next. We're in the next phase now.

If you are happy for a TA to be teaching, what is the argument for requiring a graduate and QTS?

It's important to recognise that the TA is delivering the teachers work. If she or he was doing the planning, the resource marking and the assessing, then it would be entirely wrong, for them, for the kids and for teachers who've put all the work into training and qualifying.

But as I said before, when my TA took over in my absence, she taught from my planning and resources, she was given an extra TA from another class, and was supported by the other teachers in my department of five classes in the same corridor.

So she really wasn't doing 'my.job'. Valuable as she was, she was 'only' delivering my work and managing the class. And if there were any problems, the other teachers would step up with resources and share their planning with her.

Complain to offsted , why can’t that class be taught by other teachers in the school and the TA teach their classes occasionally so it is not the same class affected every day .Teachers receive a much higher rate of pay than TAs and this is teaching on the cheap!

Parents need to complain to the Government not OFSTED. It’s happening in many schools, OFSTED aren’t going to be able to do anything.

Parents need to complain to their MP about funding for schools

The school is just trying to do their best for the children in whatever situation they are facing. It is possible the planning has been done by teachers and the TA will be supported to take care of the class.

I'd have the following questions:

Is a teacher doing the planning and retaining responsibility for the assessment of the class' learning?
How many extra hours per week is the TA being paid for to ensure s/he has time for resourcing/ day-to-day assessment etc?
If the class teacher had a TA, has this been back filled or is the TA now alone?
Is the TA getting PPA?
Is the TA accessing CPD alongside all the other teachers and being paid for these hours?
Who is being held accountable for the class' progress? If it's the TA what support is she being given to ensure they are progressing?

If the school couldn't give me satisfactory answers to all these questions, I would be raising serious concerns.

While teachers tolerate being exploited, treated like children themselves, exposed to all sorts of stress - then this is the result
@madroid teachers hate all of these things but have no power to change it as the unions no longer have any real influence. What do you suggest teachers do other than vote with their feet and leave education? Or go part time to cope with the stresses and accept the financial hit? And speaking of financial hit the NEU recently calculated that teachers (and I think probably TAs) are 17% worse off in real terms compared to 2010 due to years of pay freezes or tiny below inflation pay rises.

Responding to the qualifications and website point, I’m shocked that so many schools don’t list. I’ve only been teaching for 5 years and the schools I’ve worked for do list as do the ones I’ve reviewed when considering whether to apply. May be it’s a regional thing. I’d directly ask if I had doubts.

To those of you who have sensible questions and are shocked by this and suggest raising serious concerns. We had a similar situation at my sons school. He was in a class of 37-39, a mixed year group and taught by a TA. The TA was paid an extra 15 mins a day, plus 1 PPA session and was 'supervised' by a teacher in another year group who was responsible for the children progress. I can tell you ofsted and my local MP were not in the slightest bit interested in this operational decision by the Head. My MP said it showed leadership and that more money wasnt needed across the country for schools because the schools SAT results were national average. He also gave me lots of statistics about just how many teachers were being recruited and what a top job the government were doing.

@TheHateIsNotGood

Arthur - I'm suggesting that what we are teaching as an Education is ridiculous and pointless; if people like Borrie are an example of success.

That's all. So many are tied into and believe that all we need to do is tweak the Curriculum and improve the T&Cs of Teachers.

I suggest scrapping the whole thing and start Education anew. Maybe put the 3Rs into 'vocational' for a start, increase options for study - recently discovered that it's mostly private schools that offer GCSE Ancient History, it's so rare that even the online Schools don't offer it.

So, many state educated children who might be great Museum Curators or Managers of Heritage Sites don't even get a look in or chance to develop their interests.

And that's just one example. Scrap the whole thing and start again.

Heritage and curator jobs often require a master's. You don't need GCSE ancient history for that.

Increasing the options for study would be lovely. But it's just not realistic. More subjects on offer means more teachers are needed. There is no funding for this.

@nohouseyet

You are not being unreasonable, the school should cut its budget elsewhere, your child should be taught by a teacher and the if the school have budgeting issues they should be cutting elsewhere, not teaching staff. Is it an academy / free school? This is the problem when schools don’t have proper oversight and accountability in place. This would never happen in a million years in my LA maintained school.

I already buy my class whiteboard markers , highlighters, sharpeners that don't fall apart after one use and many other bits because the resources we are allocated are just not enough. I have Insta Ink at home because the printing budget I have at school is beyond dire. All the extra Christmas bits? That is me. We have just had a 2 day INSET and the heating was off to save money. The budget is gone. There is no money.

In my school all teachers are insured. After three days of absence the policy pays us to be able to source supply and this is what happens. If you know a teacher is leaving you also.have a term to source a replacement. Complain to the school. What you are describing is totally unacceptable!

@Tiredmum122 the insurance you speak of is very, very expensive and only kicks in after several days. Most absences are for one or two days. And the insurance doesn't solve the general retention / recruitment issue in education.

I'm surprised they've even got TAs to cover!

Recruitment and retention in schools is dire.

Budgets have been slashed over the years and the entire pandemic when education staff worked more hours than the usual ridiculous hours the government were busy producing covid Petri dishes and blaming school staff for it or saying they didn't want to work.

Too many people have seen the light and left. You can easily het supply TAs and teachers. Most want to do the job but not tie themselves to all the other crap. But there is no money.

The good news is many HLTAs who are taking classes are often degree educated and also many are ex teachers.

@Tiredmum122 if a teacher resigns during the October half term then school won't be able to recruit a currently employed teacher to start until after Easter as that teacher would also have to give notice and there are three set points in the year by which notice must be given. It's a difficult system in regard to resignations.

@itsgettingwierd You can easily het supply TAs and teachers. Not everywhere in the country.

The good news is many HLTAs who are taking classes are often degree educated and also many are ex teachers. Which smacks of exploitation and the total undermining of those with professional qualifications to me ...

The good news is many HLTAs who are taking classes are often degree educated and also many are ex teachers

Not round here, they’re not!

This topic has been discussed and ignored so many times on MN.

Unqualified teachers have been in front of your children for years. It's not just private schools or academies, it happens in a lot of schools. Why? Because it saves money, it's impossible to recruit in some subjects, but mainly because most parents don't care enough to make a fuss. There is a thread running currently where a HTs wife boats about her husband sending the janitor to cover lessons. And some posters saying how great and inventive this is.

That's how it starts. It is one or two lessons in an emergency. Then before you know it a TA is teaching a GCSE class for the entirety of the course. I know it happens. I have seen it happen.

[quote Missdread]@TheHateIsNotGood of course you can't compare apples with pears, I was just making the point because I think people would be shocked to find out how little some teachers are paid. Supply is especially bad because of the huge fees the agencies cream off. I am a teacher with a degree, a postgraduate degree and 17 years' experience and an agency feels I am worth £110 a day. In schools, you can reach the top of the pay scale after 10 years or so, leave that school and you have no right to earn the same at another school. You can literally drop £10k down the scale as pay portability was got rid of by Michael Gove. This means many teachers are trapped in jobs they hate in schools that are making them ill because they can't afford to leave. It is a disgrace.[/quote]
I had no idea this had happened, and I bet this has a lot to do with the teacher shortage. What a ridiculous idea.

Another reason to hate the odious Gove. (Not that any more were needed.)

*I had no idea this had happened, and I bet this has a lot to do with the teacher shortage. What a ridiculous idea.

Another reason to hate the odious Gove. (Not that any more were needed.)*

Presumably it is all part of Gove's masterplan. If we do not educated the masses then they won't think for themselves and are more likely to vote for him and his bullyboy mates.

And if you have a tight budget making the experienced teachers miserable or managing them out so you can get a much cheaper teacher with less experience also works.