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AIBU?

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Original poster

....to think my daughter's class has a right to a qualified teacher?

466 replies

pokemeinthemorning · 18/11/2021 20:16

So we had a message tonight on the system to explain what is happening in my daughter's year 5 class. Apparently, their teacher will now be teaching another class because one teacher left two weeks ago and they have said they have 'dispensed of any supply staff'. Basically the TA will be teaching the class for the foreseeable future.
I know there are many dedicated and wonderful TA's who could make great teachers BUT we are not qualified to teach classes on a regular basis.
On questioning my daughter I found out that from the start of this year she has her teacher in class 2 days a week and the rest is taken on by the TA. We were not told about this.
As a TA myself, I know that they often cover classes but this is on a regular basis for a prolonged period of time.

I feel that this is very unfair and they should at least be employing supply teachers in the meantime.

OP posts:
Endoftether2000 · 19/11/2021 20:37

You may have answered this pokemeinthemorning but do TAs get paid anywhere near a Teachers Salary? If not do they get their pay upgraded for Teaching days?

blessedbethechocolate · 19/11/2021 20:38

@Endoftether2000

You may have answered this pokemeinthemorning but do TAs get paid anywhere near a Teachers Salary? If not do they get their pay upgraded for Teaching days?
Where I used to work a teacher walked out and the TA who had to step up to teach the class was told they wouldn't get more pay as it's in their contract to cover where needed.
cherish123 · 19/11/2021 20:40

Is this the UK? By law, a qualified teacher must teach the class. I am a UK teacher. Is there a deputy head who could cover.

cherish123 · 19/11/2021 20:43

State schools, that is. Private schools can employ teachers who are not qualified but don't tend to.

phlebasconsidered · 19/11/2021 20:46

There is no law saying any such thing any longer cherish. And academy trusts could employ a dog in a tie and there would be nothing you could do about it. The Tories removed the requirement to have a qualified teacher.

You can't get supply where I am. Nor are teaching positions being filled. Even TA post advertised last month hasn't had any viable applicants. It's not surprising really given the exodus from the profession. I'm just about at breaking point myself. And we have run out of pens, pencils and glue sticks already.

noblegiraffe · 19/11/2021 20:46

I think in Scotland teachers need to be qualified.

DaisyStiener · 19/11/2021 20:47

Bloody hell what a sh*t show!
I do a job where I’m expected to “step up “ when needed, and do the job of the “qualifieds” ( who are all stressed and leaving,too)
They get paid a lot more than me ,obviously ( as they should as they’re trained to a level I’m not)
I started saying “no, that’s not my job to plug the recruitment /sick gaps “
it’s thankless anyways- as soon as you’re no longer needed, everyone lets you know it Hmm….

That’s not fair on the TA or the children
This is one thread where I wish the papers DID pick up on this.
As others have said : we pay our taxes. We need to stop this drummed-in mentality about utilising services such as NHS or educational, as it’s “free”. Demand what your children deserve. But at your MP or above the Head Teacher

Best of luck OP

Goondoit19 · 19/11/2021 20:54

To be honest after all the teacher bashing that goes on it’s a surprise that anyone wants to be a teacher. The children can be extremely challenging and rude and the work is relentless. There won’t be any teachers left soon at the way they are leaving the profession so you should be happy that they have someone to teach at all. If I was the TA I would be really cross though.

ArthurTudor · 19/11/2021 20:56

@TheHateIsNotGood

jgw1 has a very good point. Obviously learning the old 3 Rs is quite important but then so are the newer K and I skills (keyboard and internet). If Borry can make it to the top, then it's very unlikely that an highly educated. very intelligent, extremely capable lower "class" person can.

Only the Electorate can change this nonsense and Party Politics isn't the way to get the best people involved in leading our country.

Maybe some disillusioned Teachers out there can throw off any labels and start to stand for some common sense thinking. Or maybe most would rather stand by and wait for others to risk speaking out for change?

Maybe some disillusioned Teachers out there can throw off any labels and start to stand for some common sense thinking. Or maybe most would rather stand by and wait for others to risk speaking out for change?/

Really don't understand this comment. Teaching unions campaign for better standards and funding (and no not just for teachers pay) and are constantly vilified in the press.

saraclara · 19/11/2021 20:59

@Endoftether2000

You may have answered this pokemeinthemorning but do TAs get paid anywhere near a Teachers Salary? If not do they get their pay upgraded for Teaching days?
In my experience, yes. Not if they're covering for less than a day, but otherwise, yes. If they covered for a full day or more at my school, they got paid extra. Not as much as the teacher (as they didn't have to do planning or assessment or any of that stuff) but definitely enough for many of them to be quite keen to encourage their teachers to 'stay off until you're really well'!
ButterflyBitch · 19/11/2021 21:00

@DroopyClematis

You aren't allowed to teach the same class , as a TA, for more than 3 consecutive days , as the school's insurance will kick in to provide funding for a replacement teacher. ( speaking as an overused TA and HLTA.)
Lol. I’ll tell the TAs in my school that, they were teaching in school whilst the teachers were at home planning throughout the last lockdown.
saraclara · 19/11/2021 21:01

@cherish123

Is this the UK? By law, a qualified teacher must teach the class. I am a UK teacher. Is there a deputy head who could cover.
Are you really a teacher? Because you're entirely wrong.

At my state school we had a full time unqualified teacher, and several TAs who were paid more and could cover for several weeks at a pinch.

Needdoughnuts · 19/11/2021 21:03

They don't get any more pay in my school. Apparently someone got 50p per hour extra once but were told not to tell anyone. In case we all asked I suppose! Hmm

MrsHamlet · 19/11/2021 21:05

@cherish123

Is this the UK? By law, a qualified teacher must teach the class. I am a UK teacher. Is there a deputy head who could cover.
That's not true. Academies and free schools don't have to employ people with QTS and state schools can also employ unqualified teachers to teach full time if the head deems them suitable.
Appuskidu · 19/11/2021 21:10

@cherish123

Is this the UK? By law, a qualified teacher must teach the class. I am a UK teacher. Is there a deputy head who could cover.
Can you link to this law, @cherish123?
riceuten · 19/11/2021 21:15

@nohouseyet

You are not being unreasonable, the school should cut its budget elsewhere, your child should be taught by a teacher and the if the school have budgeting issues they should be cutting elsewhere, not teaching staff. Is it an academy / free school? This is the problem when schools don’t have proper oversight and accountability in place. This would never happen in a million years in my LA maintained school.
Suggestions as to what they should be cutting ?

As academies and free schools are able to employ non-qualified teachers - they can and they will. Those MAT CEO's salaries and perks won't pay themselves

Foxyloxy1plus1 · 19/11/2021 21:20

It was the case and assumed that it still was, that the only person who must be a qualified teacher is the SENCo.

As has been said, academies and private schools can decide whether they employ qualified staff.

Several years ago, I thought and said, that the tipping point had been reached in terms of the teaching profession. It’s now gone too far to be redeemable in the format it is now. The system has collapsed and complaining to head teachers will do no good. They aren’t the ones responsible for this shit show. It’s the government- well successive governments over the last ten years or so.

Hetyanni · 19/11/2021 21:25

What do you want the school to do about it?

It isn't something they will have chosen. Obviously. There is a teacher shortage.

Gillimac37 · 19/11/2021 22:53

And supply teachers can't get jobs because they don't want to pay the salary (which is ridiculously low - £120 before tax and deductions- when they can pay a TA or a cover supervisor for £70 a day instead.

TheHateIsNotGood · 19/11/2021 23:08

Arthur - I'm suggesting that what we are teaching as an Education is ridiculous and pointless; if people like Borrie are an example of success.

That's all. So many are tied into and believe that all we need to do is tweak the Curriculum and improve the T&Cs of Teachers.

I suggest scrapping the whole thing and start Education anew. Maybe put the 3Rs into 'vocational' for a start, increase options for study - recently discovered that it's mostly private schools that offer GCSE Ancient History, it's so rare that even the online Schools don't offer it.

So, many state educated children who might be great Museum Curators or Managers of Heritage Sites don't even get a look in or chance to develop their interests.

And that's just one example. Scrap the whole thing and start again.

cherish123 · 19/11/2021 23:09

@appuskidu
Can't find anything online about it being legal but I know HT have said this. I have taught for 20 years across the UK and never seen a TA teach a class.

Appuskidu · 19/11/2021 23:15

[quote cherish123]@appuskidu
Can't find anything online about it being legal but I know HT have said this. I have taught for 20 years across the UK and never seen a TA teach a class.[/quote]
Interesting.

I have taught for nearly 25 years in England and have seen TAs teaching classes left right and centre in recent years. I would be very interested in seeing links to any legislation preventing this.

saraclara · 19/11/2021 23:18

[quote cherish123]@appuskidu
Can't find anything online about it being legal but I know HT have said this. I have taught for 20 years across the UK and never seen a TA teach a class.[/quote]
I taught for 40 years and definitely have! Mostly in the last 10 years or so, I'd say.

And I've already said that my school employed an unqualified class teacher for some years. We had three levels of TAs. The mid-level could take a class for a day or so. The upper level could teach for a week or two (planning etc supplied by the teacher and supervised by the head of dept) sometimes more if they were exceptionally good.

I had to be off for three weeks, and my kids were taught by my lead TA. I was very very comfortable that with my planning and support, the children didn't lose out at all. And were 100x better off than if a supply was drafted in who didn't know them and their needs and targets.

saraclara · 19/11/2021 23:22

@Appuskidu

fullfact.org/education/unqualified-teachers/

saraclara · 19/11/2021 23:23

...and TAs covering classes @Appuskidu

neu.org.uk/advice/hltas-and-cover-supervisors