....to think my daughter's class has a right to a qualified teacher?

[pokemeinthemorning]

So we had a message tonight on the system to explain what is happening in my daughter's year 5 class. Apparently, their teacher will now be teaching another class because one teacher left two weeks ago and they have said they have 'dispensed of any supply staff'. Basically the TA will be teaching the class for the foreseeable future.
I know there are many dedicated and wonderful TA's who could make great teachers BUT we are not qualified to teach classes on a regular basis.
On questioning my daughter I found out that from the start of this year she has her teacher in class 2 days a week and the rest is taken on by the TA. We were not told about this.
As a TA myself, I know that they often cover classes but this is on a regular basis for a prolonged period of time.

I feel that this is very unfair and they should at least be employing supply teachers in the meantime.

I think it depends. An excellent TA who knows the pupils well may well be better than having a string of supply teachers. Obviously it's not a long term solution though

And from the TAs perspective I really hope they have increased her pay up to unqualified teacher scale

"These [teachers] are the right kind of immigrants, quite unlike those from the European Union, or people so desperate they would get in a rubber dinghy to cross the channel."

Imagine for a moment that the UK fell into bloody civil war, or was invaded, and life in bombed-out cities became a living hell. Or the new authorities started torturing citizens and their families.
Who would have the resources to leave and seek asylum first?

As someone who has worked with asylum seekers and refugees, most of the people I was working with were people who previously were teachers, professors, lawyers, journalists etc. because 1) they tend to get persecuted first in a dangerous regime 2) they may have the financial resources and contacts to be able to afford the astronomical prices to travel to safety. And all of them had suffered enormous loss, or emotional/physical abuse and pain, which is why they made an incredibly difficult decision to leave their previous lives.

It's extremely patronising to assume that because someone is travelling on a dinghy, seeking refuge, that they're not highly skilled, highly qualified and/or intelligent people. The stupidity of the government is in not allowing asylum seekers to work, if they can, during the time that their long drawn out assessments take place.

I think you have every right to be angered by the plight of your dd's class. I would write in to complain, especial in the underhand way they done thing by not keeping parents informed. I wonder what would happen if there was a serious incident in your dd class while no qualified teacher was present? This year and last schools could access a lot of Covid catch up finding.

Of course your child is entitled to be taught by a properly qualified professional, but until people stop voting Conservative it’s unlikely to happen.

Complain. It isn't acceptable. They need to at least try and get a replacement even if that is a supply teacher.

@84wood

Responding to a point - how do you know teacher qualifications? A decent school website should list qualifications. I’d ask if there is no information.

I've been teaching over 25 years in 5 schools. Grammar, secondary modern and comprehensive. My qualifications have never been displayed on any staff list.

There are lots of levels of TA. I'd have no issue with a Level 3 HLTA teaching my child. Many HLTAs are qualified teachers these days too. Care more about experience than qualifications.

Many TAs are actually better at teaching than those who are qualified - it's all down to the individual and their experience, approach and ability to control the class.
It's the TAs I feel sorry for, so often having to step into a teacher's role but on minimum wage. Grossly unfair.

@pollymere

There are lots of levels of TA. I'd have no issue with a Level 3 HLTA teaching my child. Many HLTAs are qualified teachers these days too. Care more about experience than qualifications.

In that case, I’m wondering why we even bother to have teachers. TA should be enough no?

Much better for schools, they dint need to pay them as much. No long training required. What is there not to like?

Probably just the fact that we know well that the difference between a education system that works and one that doesn’t is the actual level of training of said teachers. Turns out that well trained teachers make better teachers after all.

It’s not just the Government that have treated teachers badly. Just have to look at many threads on here over the last 2 years. So much teacher bashing. Well it’s coming home to roost now!

Yep. I agree there too @toomuchlaundry

We had something similar happen last year when my daughter was in year 6. Her teacher went on maternity leave and they hired a teacher to cover. The year 5 teacher then also went on maternity leave and this very young, inexperienced (but lovely) cover teacher was left to teach two classes, whilst sticking to covid bubbles as much as possible. This meant that both classes were left being taught by their TAs for weeks, until the teacher swapped classes again.

My first thought was that my daughter needed a qualified teacher, but then I thought no, the TAs are bloody brilliant and have years of experience. Obviously I don't know what was going on behind the scenes, and they might have hated it, and probably weren't being paid for it, but from the point of view as a parent, I couldn't have given a damn whether they were qualified teachers or not.

Ever since it was decided that TAs could take whole classes there was the potential for this. I'm a former teacher and I've worked with some amazing TAs but they are not getting paid to take on that responsibility. It isn't fair on them. It may well be that the TA in your DCs class is perfectly capable and the class will not lose out but that is not the point. My DSis is a part time TA and is also a qualified teacher although she only taught for a year before getting accidentally pregnant and spending the next seven or eight years as a SAHM- hence not wanting to apply for teaching jobs again. She was initially told that when the school needed to use her as an extra supply teacher on top of her TA role, they'd pay the going rate for a professional, qualified teacher. Which hasn't happened. Ever.

YANBU this is a vacant position so budget cits don't come into it. They should be going to an agency and recruiting ASAP. Contact the board of governors and tell them you are going to ofsted. This is unfair to the TA and teachers.

She was initially told that when the school needed to use her as an extra supply teacher on top of her TA role, they'd pay the going rate for a professional, qualified teacher. Which hasn't happened. Ever.

They haven’t used her for cover or they haven’t paid her properly?

Many TAs are actually better at teaching than those who are qualified

How would you feel about scrapping the teaching qualification altogether then? Just pay TAs to do it all on £10 an hour?

@Appuskidu

She was initially told that when the school needed to use her as an extra supply teacher on top of her TA role, they'd pay the going rate for a professional, qualified teacher. Which hasn't happened. Ever.

They haven’t used her for cover or they haven’t paid her properly?

Many TAs are actually better at teaching than those who are qualified

How would you feel about scrapping the teaching qualification altogether then? Just pay TAs to do it all on £10 an hour?

Teaching young people isn't really very important, so probably best to just pay the minimum wage.

I mean look at the amount that Boris' parents paid for his education and he still doesn't know that that Glasgow and Edinburgh are different cities.

@Mollymoostoo supply teachers are in very short supply (excuse the pun)

Definitely question this with the head if you are concerned and I'm sure they will reassure you with their own justification of why.
She may be undertaking teacher training whilst working as a TA, if she is educated to degree level then she can teach a class as an unqualified teacher whilst gaining QTS, I'm sure she is a fantastic teacher or they would not have trusted her to teach the class full time. I am a teacher myself and personally work with fantastic teaching assistants who teach classes regularly to a high standard!
But as I say definitely talk to the head if you are concerned.

YANBU. the same happened in my DD's class (year 2). Her TA is a nice person but is not qualified to teach, has no degree or A levels, and I hate to say it but her grasp of the English language is not great. In my DD's reading book she recently wrote 'you done good reading', which is similar to how she speaks. Like I said, she's a nice lady but isn't a teacher.

Having said that, there are no teachers available so whilst it's not ideal, I am pleased the class have at least got adult supervision.

It's appalling that this seems to be an acceptable solution and is not sustainable. Schools need better funding and more investment in teachers.

If they have no money to employ a teacher and have tried all other avenues, I’d expect the Deputy and Headteacher to teach the class!

And who would do their job? Our deputy would often try to step in, but could only do so much and still do the job she was paid for. The head is busy running a school, fighting for more funding, trying to make the budget work and phoning around frantically to find the money or the people. As well as answering parents' emails instantly (as is expected on Mumsnet) and actualy keeping the school going.

If parents don't know as kuch about what it means to be a teacher, they know even less about what a head does these days (basically run and manage the budget of a big company and manage HR on top of everything heads used to do). Even teachers don't know half the time, how much their heads have to do.

They don't just sit in their office waiting for a class to be short of a teacher.

Stop voting tory.

Teachers have had a 17% pay cut in real terms.
We are working almost a day for free.

School budgets have been squeezed to almost oblivion.

SEND and behaviour external support services for schools are now non existent, unless they pay mega bucks- and guess what, they don’t have the budgets- see previous.

Paperwork, assessment, lack of trained internal support staff (because their pay is CRAP), GPs failing to help with referrals, the wrath of the universe targeting us for the blame for everything during lockdown …. The list goes on foreverrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!

And you wonder why teachers are leaving?!!!!

Your kids deserve better, teachers deserve better.

Sorry haven't read right through the thread - so apologies if this has been mentioned. I gather TA don't get paid for all the holidays (had a friend who was a TA years ago) & their salary is divided across the year - which means that they get underpaid per month.
So out of interest would TAs under these circumstances get training & information updates like the teachers? Would they be writing the reports & other paperwork for each students assessment etc & overseeing class planning & what educational level do they have in Maths & English & Science
I feel as sorry for the TA in this circumstance as the students

jgw1 has a very good point. Obviously learning the old 3 Rs is quite important but then so are the newer K and I skills (keyboard and internet). If Borry can make it to the top, then it's very unlikely that an highly educated. very intelligent, extremely capable lower "class" person can.

Only the Electorate can change this nonsense and Party Politics isn't the way to get the best people involved in leading our country.

Maybe some disillusioned Teachers out there can throw off any labels and start to stand for some common sense thinking. Or maybe most would rather stand by and wait for others to risk speaking out for change?

Your not wrong but... is it their way of getting out of a bad predicament... a good TA can easily be a better choice than a bad supply teacher.

Also if they have passed (or possibly training) cache stage 4 they are allowed with back up.

Uanbu but I think it's common these days. I had a parents evening with my 11yr olds teacher and it turns out he only teaches one day a week. So the rest of the time it's all TAs.