To want to pay cleaner by bank transfer not cash.

[Starryskiesinthesky]

Cleaner wants paid in cash but I never have cash so would prefer to pay by bank transfer. Fact she wants cash makes me think she’s not declaring it. What do others do and do you care if they are not declaring it? £15 per hour if it makes a difference. Thanks.

@Oftenithinkaboutit

Cleaners.

At a whim can be cancelled. No payment
Absolutely zero job security
No sick pay
No Maternity pay
No parental leave

It’s a vulnerable job at it’s most vulnerable.

Yes if you start a cleaning business then you are in a very different position to the cleaner that I use (not through an agency. Haemorrhaged jobs during lockdown. Often told not to come on the day or turns up and 5 hour job is actually “just the two of today please”)

So a little request like cash, tiny bit of hassle of me, like water off a Duck’s back

You’ve just described the position most self employed tradespeople are in! Maybe we should pay all self employed people in cash and let them decide whether or not to declare their earnings?

Just to add, times have changed re. ‘tradespeople’ Yes, they rely on their health in order to work (unless they have taken out private sickness insurance) but many make good money - being a self employed cleaner is very different to cleaning an office on minimum wage for example.

@anxiousstanley

I pay my wonderful lady in cash. It's really not anyone's business but hers and the tax man if she is declaring it or not.

Actually, yes it is. Unless she is working for an agency or has declared herself as self-emplyed to the taxman, you should stick to the legal tenets of being an employer. And check she has insurance for any breakages etc as this won't be covered by your home insurance!

Actually, yes it is. Unless she is working for an agency or has declared herself as self-emplyed to the taxman, you should stick to the legal tenets of being an employer

Not right. By this logic, we should all be paying NI for our cleaners. They are contractors with clients, not our employees.

Actually, yes it is. Unless she is working for an agency or has declared herself as self-emplyed to the taxman, you should stick to the legal tenets of being an employer

Nope.

@Merryoldgoat

Actually, yes it is. Unless she is working for an agency or has declared herself as self-emplyed to the taxman, you should stick to the legal tenets of being an employer

Nope.

Nope? What does that mean?

Eek! Sorry @Merryoldgoat I though you were disagreeing with me but we both quotes the same post and agreed. Sorry!

@yikerspipers 🤣🤣

I’ve just had an argument with someone at work about this exact stuff. It drives me nutty.

I pay by bank transfer and as my cleaner only works for me and is self employed, she is under limit to pay tax. I don't care whether she pays tax or not, just glad she does a good job.

Maybe she doesn’t feel safe giving out bank details.
Maybe she’s got issues at home and having cash of her own to spend or stash away means the world to her.
Maybe that’s just how she likes to get paid.

I’m guessing you know she’s coming regularly. Just do some adulting and get cash out in advance. You not remembering to is your issue. Not hers. Get enough cash. Put in envelopes to cover a month or whatever. Bobs your uncle - sorted.

Could she be asking for cash so she has change to give other people?

Somebody like my mother views electronic payments with a suspicion usually reserved for men wearing stripey jumpers, masks and carrying a bag marked 'SWAG' or in her case, women wearing suits and red lipstick.

She would never trust a bank transfer in case it gave them her bank details and they then empty her account - she gets a long suffering relative to buy her shopping for her so that she isn't 'forced to use that chips and pen thing' [sic] and then refunds them with bundles of cash she gets another to draw out at the bank counter not realising that's illegal, so he goes to the cash machines she also views as cleverly disguised Robbery Machines.

Her bills are always paid in cash and she wouldn't dream of paying more than one week's at a time - she'd refuse point blank.

So anybody doing any work for her would have to give her change or risk her claiming she'd already paid last week.

@caringcarer

I pay by bank transfer and as my cleaner only works for me and is self employed, she is under limit to pay tax. I don't care whether she pays tax or not, just glad she does a good job.

She might be under the limit to pay tax, but she will be over the self-assessment limit.

The last cleaner we had liked to be paid in Amazon gift vouchers. It was her way of saving for birthdays and Christmas. Once a month I would email it to her. At Christmas we would pay her double (the extra being cash). I kept my nose out of her private/business affairs.

Lots of people don't have a clue about what it means to be self-employed, or use the services of a self-employed person.

I am self-employed. I have been working at home since well before the pandemic. It's not MLM. It's not selling "glittery shit". I have come across so many attitudes that it's not a proper job, that it's just playing, a hobby, that I must be fiddling tax.

This cleaner is SELF-EMPLOYED. That means that she doesn't get many of the benefits which come with employment like sick pay or holiday pay. But it also means she gets the flexibility to take what jobs she wants and sets her own rate, and gets to choose how she gets paid.

She wants cash and that's her choice. If you don't want to accommodate her choice, then she can choose not to work for you. What she does after you leave a pile of £10 notes on the table in terms of tax is NOT your responsibility as a client any more than it is your responsibility to check up on the hairdresser, car wash guys, plumber or window cleaner.

People who don't understand what self-employment is, and how it works, really do spout off a whole lot of nonsense about employees, employers and "duties".

I earn maybe…. 8x more than my cleaner.

So if she wants cash, she gets cash.

What she does after you leave a pile of £10 notes on the table in terms of tax is NOT your responsibility as a client any more than it is your responsibility to check up on the hairdresser, car wash guys, plumber or window cleaner.
But all.those other people are paid by card or bank transfer, not cash.

@Oftenithinkaboutit

I earn maybe…. 8x more than my cleaner.

So if she wants cash, she gets cash.

I'm not really seeing why earning multiples matter. I see a private consultant who earns very very much more than me. I can tell you now he doesn't take cash!

@EmmaGrundyForPM

What she does after you leave a pile of £10 notes on the table in terms of tax is NOT your responsibility as a client any more than it is your responsibility to check up on the hairdresser, car wash guys, plumber or window cleaner. But all.those other people are paid by card or bank transfer, not cash.

I pay all those by cash other than hairdresser (because I spend a horrifying amount at my hairdresser!)

Anyone who is paid in cash is not declaring it. Why else would they want cash? If you are going to pay anyone in cash, make sure you don’t pay market rate. They can’t have it both ways, while the rest of the population pays tax on market rate wages.

Why don't tradespeople carry cash for change

Because people want them to take bank transfers so that the state is protected from losing the heady sum of about (assuming they've passed the tax free allowance by working over 16 hours a week at £15/h) about a fiver a week.

It's the important thing. Beth who fits in two cleaning jobs a day and has to be told to make sure that the tassels on the rug all lay straight after she's vacuumed and Fred who cuts the grass once a month need to make up for everything that Amazon avoids. They're the ones who really, really matter.

MLMshouldbeillegal - I agree people don't understand what it's like to be self employed. I am self-employed. When my dad was ill I did the hospital appointments because I could "take time off" and my siblings couldn't. But they never put two and two together and realised that I didn't get paid. My earnings dropped by more than half while he was ill.

As for cash - I always asked for cash unless I was on a fixed term contract with a large-ish business. Cash means you get paid. Invoicing takes time, it's ususally done monthly and people expect 30 days "to pay". You wait, you chase (no accounts department to do it for you), you check your bank account. Not in yet - so you chase (and get "oh sorry - I sent it/will send it/will do it tomorrow"). Sometimes you never get paid at all.
Cash - it's there. If they don't pay they have to say it to your face - and you never work for them again. No excuses.

And I paid every penny of tax that was due.

Those who never have to think twice about whether their salary has gone in and who can trustingly set up direct debits for the bills to go out have no bloody idea.

And as an aside - how often do we hear on MN people saying "Just don't have her/him/them back" or "just don't pay" about a builder, plumber, cleaner, tutor.

You can lose your job in a second and people think they have a right not to pay you. They never imagine that their own comfortable salary might just not go in on Tuesday because they were a bit rude to their manager on Monday and had two days sick last week.

sst1234 not everyone has your moral code. Just because you can't see why people would pay tax if they can avoid it doesn't mean everyone else thinks the same.

@NeverDropYourMooncup

Why don't tradespeople carry cash for change

Because people want them to take bank transfers so that the state is protected from losing the heady sum of about (assuming they've passed the tax free allowance by working over 16 hours a week at £15/h) about a fiver a week.

It's the important thing. Beth who fits in two cleaning jobs a day and has to be told to make sure that the tassels on the rug all lay straight after she's vacuumed and Fred who cuts the grass once a month need to make up for everything that Amazon avoids. They're the ones who really, really matter.

Quite.

All this desire to police someone at the lower end of the income scale just in case they get above themselves by a few pennies.

I do hope the cleaner police are boycotting, Amazon, FB, Google, Nestle and all the other big multinationals engaged in aggressive tax avoidance and labour law avoidance to increase profits and undercut the competition.

And I'm sure none have ever overspent or over claimed on expenses in white collar jobs.

C8H10N4O2 - absolutely agree. All these self-righteous people who won't shop at Waitrose because it's too expensive and you can "get it off Amazon for less". Why do you think that is?? And are happy about giving cash to Amazon so they can "not declare" it. Because effectively that's what's happening. Or buy it from China - because "hey ho it saves me £2". (And of course they pay loads of tax for our hospitals and schools...)

Maybe just think about double standards.

I’d just get cash back next time I’m out at any shop and stick it in an envelope and keep for her next day she’s there. Really no faff at all.

Plus most garages have cash machines and/or post offices where you can also lift money. It really isn’t a faff.