To think learning how to behave around dogs should be part of the national curriculum

[Itsadogsworld]

I think schools should teach children how to behave around dogs, canine body language and so on. I think it would significantly reduce the number of children that end up in A&E each year due to dogs bites. I’ve seen some dreadful behaviour in my local park where children will run up to my dog and one child was continually trying to bear hug her own dog. Children clearly aren’t being taught this at home so I think they should include it in schools. I welcome your thoughts on this.

Your dog can be on a lead and a child whose uneducated about dogs grabs it, pulls it etc . Or screams in its face making the dog scared.

@Moonface123

The children pick up the anxiety from their parents, my old skinny lurcher used to walk along on her shaky legs, nose to the ground, totally oblivious and uninterested in humans, yet the amount of times, we have had an hysterical young child, or parent to contend with, (so very wearing trying to recall a dog that has gone deaf, and actively trying to avoid any form of human contact) l have even told the parents straight up they need to educate themselves regarding dogs. Yet another fear the media has manufactured, demonising dogs.

You have made this judgement on where children have picked up being afraid of dogs from where? From speaking with parents of children afraid of animals?

One of my children is scared of dogs for no reason other than maybe from the time a dog jumped up on him. I don't even think it was that, since this has also happened to my other child who is not so fearful. I am not scared of dogs and grew up with them and I also had some responsibility for them so I understand dogs quite well. On the whole kids are frightened of unknown animals, it is instinctual and some children need alot of exposure to an animal to get over their fear. Actually when you think about it having this fear probably has good evolutionary reason much like children who fear deep water. I'm not sure why you think it is picked up from parents?

Generally dogs that seriously injure or kill are put down at least in the news.

The owner may or may not be prosecuted for negligence/ cruelty etc depending on circs.

What's all this liability stuff? We're not American?!

You get bitten the dog owner doesn't apologise and makes a shit excuse you go on your way. That's what is usual surely?

I mean if just bleeding puncture wounds and not infected or worse severity etc.

I think woven into the curriculum should also be responsible pet ownership.
The idea that not everyone wants to be subjected to your dog jumping up, or your cat shit in their garden etc.

I was in a country years ago where packs of stray dogs were around and had gone wild essentially.

They were scary at times esp if somewhere fairly deserted, esp if all stopped and etc when saw you.

It's reasonable to be scared of dogs instinctually. Yes we have had them as working dogs companions. We have bred them (and overbred them) so many look far from where they came.

They are descended from wolves. They are pack hunters. And some breeds that humans created for aggression, to kill other animals, to attack those who are on your territory.

I think it's a bit... Out of line to avoid that.

You're on your own in a quiet place and a large dog with big comes along and behaves aggressively. I mean you're fucked aren't you. Foolish to pretend otherwise.

I have RTFT. It seems to me the risks of dog and child in the same place can be drastically slashed if (in no particular order as I love dogs and kids):

1. Dog owners are aware kids and dogs are unpredictable and act to protect their dog and kids accordingly

1. Parents are aware that dogs and kids are unpredictable and act to protect their kids and dogs accordingly

Ergo, to re-address the OP, school's should not be required to teach kids dog safety and the curriculum doesn't have to give up something else to teach it.

Interesting comparison! I think most parents ensure children are holding their hand near a main road. Traffic is a danger we live with. Should we view all dogs as a hazard too and make children hold our hands or stay on reins in case they brush past or bump into a nervous snappy dog, even in the countryside far from roads and cars?
I think we should apply similar logic to dogs as we do any other hazard: not allow our children to run up to dogs or any other animals because as parents we do not know the temperament of the animals.

My issue isn't that dogs and traffic are the same level of risk. It's that the parents on this thread who seem to take the view 'but it's legally the owner's fault' are being stupidly irresponsible if they choose to allow their children to run up to strange animals. They wouldn't let their child run around any other dangerous situation, but for some reason they seem to think that the principle of being right regarding dogs is more important than their child's safety.

Should the same logic apply in parks, beaches etc, supposedly safe spaces where children can run around? If dogs are as dangerous and potentially fatal as traffic, then perhaps they should be on leads, muzzled or banned from parks and beaches altogether?
Dogs aren't allowed in children's play areas and not all parks allow off lead exercise.
Dogs should be under appropriate control. Dog owners have a responsibility to train their dog and exercise their dog in a way that is responsible and appropriate.

Equally, parents have a responsibility to teach their children not to charge up to strange animals. I feel the same about the poor horses in fields near me. The owner had to put signs up in lockdown telling parents that the horses are not a community petting zoo. Seemingly some parents thought it was a nice little trip for their kids to go and annoy someone else's animals.

Thing is cars are generally not mixing with pedestrians.

Round here loads of people had dogs and since the lockdown dog bonanza every other person has one and lots have 2.

In the end it's any public space isn't it. Often in short supply. Popular places for both dog owners and those with children to go. Well and teens and adults as well! And when space starts to feel less spacious, people tend to get irritated.

So this thread is I think essentially any dog owners getting irritated that there's loads of people there many with children. And those with children getting irritated that there's so many dogs.

Personally, and I know loads will disagree.

Dogs can be more risk to kids than the other way around. Some dogs can be a risk to teens adults as well.

Dog shit is often left and that is a big issue when it comes to smaller children playing.

Babies toddlers children are our own species and are little for a short time, and humans are unusually vulnerable when little compared to a lot of animals.

I think that yes owners and parents should be responsible. However. The results when a dog owner is not responsible can be much worse than when a parent is not responsible.

And with the best will in the world. Loads/ most dog owners are responsible. Calling dogs away if people look uncomfy, putting on lead if kids passing etc.

But some aren't. I've been bitten twice when young. DD2 got pushed over when a toddler. No apology on any occasion.

And so all the responsible owners are pissed off but you know. Dog shit everywhere. Big dogs coming up snuffling around when person is obviously not happy with that. And then the awful incidents where people are seriously injured or killed.

I know this argument will run forever. But anyway that's what I think.

I also questioned earlier in thread and still question the timing of this thread when a child was killed so recently.

They wouldn't let their child run around any other dangerous situation, but for some reason they seem to think that the principle of being right regarding dogs is more important than their child's safety

That’s not the impression I’ve got from this thread. It seems to me most parents are aware dogs CAN be dangerous and try to keep their children from running up to them or scootering past them, or anything else that might trigger a dog. Yet people don’t always notice dogs until one appears around a corner or dog/child run towards each other. I don’t constantly scan the park for dogs as I’m walking through it with my DC, or tell my DC he mustn’t run, scoot or cycle in case a dog appears and gets provoked by the movement.

I’ve taught him to get off and walk if a dog approaches, and never to touch or startle dogs.

Ironically it’s almost always dogs approaching us, wanting to sniff, lick or just get under our feet. Or knocking children into the mud, jumping up barking or generally being a nuisance.

Parks, beaches and other pedestrianised spaces shouldn’t be ‘dangerous situations’ for children. It’s understandable many parents don’t view every dog as a potential hazard that might be triggered by a child skipping, jumping, shouting, bouncing or just running along a path.

@rrhuth What this PP said

I mentioned it as I wanted to know where I would stand if my dog had bitten the kid that tried to kick her in the face

I’m guessing your dog would be seized and PTS for biting a child in a public place, regardless of what the child did. Agree kicking a dog for no reason is horrible. But kids are unpredictable and act strangely at times. The child could easily claim they’d kicked out because they were scared and didn’t want your dog getting close, or say dog had growled, or said they meant to kick a stone and didn’t see dog. Your dog needs to be bombproof if taken out in public, into spaces shared with children and toddlers.

My dog has been ‘provoked’ many times by kids (accidentally and on purpose) but his behaviour is still my responsibility. When the baby on the bus leaned over and grabbed his ear he just looked at me. He sat patiently while I prised baby’s fingers off him, despite his ear being yanked on. When kids bump into him he just stops and sniffs them. He was raised around young kids. I think the only time he made a noise was when a girl stood on his paw, that was a yelp. But he’s never reacted to anyone with aggression; if he did he’d be muzzled.

FateHasRedesignedMost
I have no time for dogs bounding up to children either by the way and can't stand irresponsible dog owners, but at the end of the day an unknown animal is an unknown animal.
As a parent and dog owner I have no idea whether the dog up the path is friendly or not, nor do I know the stranger who owns the dog. Common sense says that I keep my dogs close to me and my children away from the dog.
Some people on this thread seem to be of the view that their DC should be able to do what they like because it's the owner's fault if something happens. I'm not sure I'd forgive myself if I allowed DC to charge up to the strange dog and they got injured.

CheeseMmmm
I don't think it's dog owners getting annoyed at children vs parents getting annoyed at dog owners. I think it's more people with common sense vs people with no common sense.

There's going to be a range of people using parks and open spaces. Like you say, most people are responsible and aware of their surroundings. Unfortunately there's some who think that they should be able to do whatever they like in any public space and everyone else should accommodate. Some of those people are irresponsible dog owners, some of those people are parents who think it's unreasonable for them to appropriately supervise their children.

@speakout

So I'm minding my own business with my dog in a park and a child comes up to it without permission and hurts my dog and it's mine and my dogs fault just because he is there and I choice to keep a dog?

Yes.

Keeping a dog is a priviledge- not a requirement.

How stupid! Having a child is also a privilege, not a requirement either, especially an ill-mannered child out of its parents control, maybe the child should be kept on a lead, ie reins.

@CheeseMmmm

I also questioned earlier in thread and still question the timing of this thread when a child was killed so recently.

I would have thought that was a good time to discuss dog ownership and making sure your "fur babies" don't hurt people (or other dogs, come to that).

Yet another fear the media has manufactured, demonising dogs

Complete nonsense. Dogs are everywhere, they're not imaginary.

@ColinTheKoala

Yet another fear the media has manufactured, demonising dogs

Complete nonsense. Dogs are everywhere, they're not imaginary.

No one says dogs are imaginary. What is manufactured and whipped up is the fear of dogs and it seems some posters fall for that.

If “fear” manifests as reasonable caution around strange dogs, what’s the problem? Obviously screaming and running away isn’t great as it will likely excite the dog and make the situation worse, but after the chasing in the dog-free area I mentioned, I’ve taught my children to stand perfectly still with their arms crossed and staring into middle distance when approached, until the dog loses interest and goes away.

Any owner who objects to a response that is calm but makes clear that we don’t want to engage with their dog is a dick.

No one says dogs are imaginary. What is manufactured and whipped up is the fear of dogs and it seems some posters fall for that.
Is it manufactured fear to exercise caution around strange animals that you don't know?

It's common sense not to approach unknown animals and it's common sense not to allow your animal to bound up to other people.

This argument will never go anywhere. Some dog owners and some parents are about as much use as a chocolate teapot. Some dog owners haven't worked out that the consequence of Fido not being trained is that Fido may end up being PTS, and some parents haven't worked out that the consequence of Jemima not being trained is that Jemima may end up being injured.

The law is on Jemima's parents' side, which for some bizarre reason seems to make parents think they have the upper hand. For me, I'd rather do anything I could to ensure Jemima didn't end up being injured, but from all of the threads on here about kids running around in coffee shops, I recognise that my risk assessment process is different from a lot of people's.

@rrhuth

It is not a child's fault if a dog attacks them.

Owners need to take more responsibility - including not buying bloody dogs in the first place if they are not going to a) train them and b) use a lead.

It is not schools' job to put right every problem in society.

Absolutely agree.

Children need to know not to run up to dogs and stroke them without asking the owner first, but beyond that it's 100% down to the dog owner.

Really what they should do is ban dangerous breeds and stop breeding them.

I can see that the dog owner might think it's the child's "fault" (even if not legally so) if the child runs up to the dog and kicks, hits, hugs or otherwise "assaults" the dog without permission from the owner.

But when the dog owner goes beyond this and blames small children for "startling" or "scaring" the dog by doing things like screaming or shrieking, tripping over the dog, running around the dog or away from the dog, being nervous and backing away or having food or a ball near the dog... my sympathy ends at that point!

In any case, dogs maim children not the other way round. If a child hits a child who hits back, the injury is unlikely to be severe. If an aggressive dog attacks, the child may end up dead or scarred for life. Hence why dogs who don't have placid temperaments shouldn't be off the lead in places open to the general public where children can come to play.

@rrhuth

It is not a child's fault if a dog attacks them.

Owners need to take more responsibility - including not buying bloody dogs in the first place if they are not going to a) train them and b) use a lead.

It is not schools' job to put right every problem in society.

I think you are wrong. There are some instances of dog bites to children which are not the fault of the dog/owner.

If I am walking my dog on a lead who is very well behaved and your child runs up to my dog and without asking and jumps straight in their face/grabs them/bear hugs them/climbs on them then it is not my fault if your child is hurt. it would be your fault for not looking after/keeping control of your child.

All of the above situations have happened to me before and i'm very lucky my dog had been brought up around children and is very very tolerant of children. Ofc there is no excuse for offlead dogs causing dog bites or dogs biting anyone when not provoked.

@Snowcloud92 You can think what you like but the law disagrees with you.

Dog owners are responsible for their dog's behaviour with regard to humans. If a dog bites a human, the owner is responsible.

The dog is at fault in the eyes of the law and I agree with that.

Although it is highly unlikely my child would do those things, because I taught them that some dogs are horrible and you can't trust dog owners to control them!