To wonder why supermarket jobs pay more than care jobs

[Apacheshadows]

Hospitality pays more too. Costa coffee £9.36 starting salary, Aldi £9.50, some bars and restaurants offer £10 per hour, plus tips I imagine.
Asda £10.97 for night shifts.

I used to work nights in a residential home and earned £8.91 per hour (over 25)
Earned £9.30 per hour as a support worker for people with learning difficulties, where we had no private area to take breaks in, food stolen, we were physically and verbally assaulted and didn’t have our own staff toilet.
Now on £9.25.
Supermarket and hospitality work is hard, tiring and stressful so indeed it deserves to be paid more, but I really don’t understand why care and support work is paid even less given what is required.
Considering applying for nights at Asda for £11 an hour, I’d never get that in my current role.

@WhoWants2Know

Unfortunately, as more experienced staff leave, the problem won't really be fixed by raising wages to attract new, inexperienced staff.

While providers are running with staff shortages, vulnerable people are being put at risk. Staffing ratios exist for a reason, so that people can be cared for safely, without mistakes during hoisting, transferring, meds, etc. And with enough oversight to prevent neglect or abuse.

Remember Winterbourne View? That was 9 years ago, and conditions for staff have only gotten worse since then. Residents have spent months without visitors to provide an additional layer of social contact and oversight about what's going on in the home. Inspections have been delayed, so if there's bad practice in a home it can become embedded in the culture.

I don't think it's an accident that carers are being vilified in the media over vaccinations. I think it's paving the way for much worse to come, as inspections resume and carers are blamed for inadequacies to take the heat off of the government.

Yes, sadly I think this too. There's always been a culture to blame those at the coal face and ignore the systematic failures that have led to it like being short staffed or under skilled. It doesn't really matter how high we raise standards if there's not enough people to meet them and 'manage your time better' is code for 'defy the laws of physics and just get it done '. Carers do it, they manage because they know if they don't then they'll get the blame, not the underfunding or the push to make profit.

Thanks to those that fed back to me...

@icedcoffees your list of things I didn't mention includes things I'm pretty sure I did.. But hey ho... 😁

I didn't think about having to top up for LA payments.

Having watched a pair of care workers recently in the park dealing with a rather demanding man who obviously had significant mental issues I can totally understand the shortage in staff and why would prefer to take supermarket work even if it was same rate never mind better! And I say that as someone who worked in a supermarket for 5 years in pretty much every dept...

Demand for Labour, which effectively determines wages along with supply, is determined by how much workers are needed, multiplied by the monetary value they have to the employer - essentially the revenue they bring in.

This is why, a number of jobs which have limited responsibility and not loads of skill command huge wages….they are jobs that bring in vast sums of money for the employer.

It will be the case that hospitality and shop work brings in a bit more revenue for the employer than care work does, plus supply in relation to demand from employers is probably a bit higher in care work.

It’s basic economics. Not saying it’s right or fair, but the market is driving wages.

@happytoday73

Thanks to those that fed back to me...

@icedcoffees your list of things I didn't mention includes things I'm pretty sure I did.. But hey ho... 😁

I didn't think about having to top up for LA payments.

Having watched a pair of care workers recently in the park dealing with a rather demanding man who obviously had significant mental issues I can totally understand the shortage in staff and why would prefer to take supermarket work even if it was same rate never mind better! And I say that as someone who worked in a supermarket for 5 years in pretty much every dept...

Yes, I was just including all the costs I could think of - many of which you didn't mention at all :)

@DeepaBeesKit

People cannot/will not pay enough for care.

It is also a service that would properly work better state run or run by non profit cooperatives (comparable to housing associations) preferably with manager pay levels linked to local authority or nhs bands.

the current model is that because care homes represent a consistent income stream and predictable costs, it's been preyed upon by the private equity sector, a sure fire way to ensure that any profit is stripped out to investors.

All of this.

Also the war on smoking. It's meant a huge loss of tax revenue as well as leading to higher social care (and pension) costs.

www.irishexaminer.com/business/companies/arid-40198791.html

Billionaire owners.

There's money in it for some.

I don't understand this either.

Agree with Nancy75

There are huge profits in care homes.

Care work isn’t low paid because there isn’t the money to pay more. It’s the greed of millionaire owners.

@Ozanj

Childcare is shit pay too. I think it’s because it’s a private company working on a not for profit basis and so people are seen as little more than a resource. I am in the process of trying to increase pay for all my girls so we can keep them but I can only do that if we get more kids - so, temporarily, I have to prioritize those who have higher qualifications. I can do this as we don’t have rents to pay (working from a family home). But I would never be able to pay £15/hr like a lot of local supermarkets do for a similar level of responsibility.

£15 per hour? Where? I get 20p above minum wage working in a supermarket. Its a horrible thankless job which everyone looks down on you for. However those in the care sector whether elderly or children do need and should be paid a lot more. I have worked in nurseries before and absolutely loved the job but even with a level 3 qualification I can't go back to it as I can't afford the childcare costs (can only afford it now by working early mornings and weekends). So no idea why care work is so badly paid, I would guess its because people actually love the job rather than the money

@Rosebel - a couple of girls have gotten straight into supervisor work from the nursery. They didn’t want to tell me but I think it’s probably Sainsburys as they’ve been recruiting locally & other nurseries have also lost staff to them. Childcare is seen as an easy poach by a lot of companies as you’re guaranteed a young, fit person with a guaranteed dbs cert pass, great communication skills, and used to taking on a good amount of responsibility. It’s shit.

@HadaVerde

Agree with Nancy75

There are huge profits in care homes.

Care work isn’t low paid because there isn’t the money to pay more. It’s the greed of millionaire owners.

There's huge profits in some care homes. Bupa quickly realised how unprofitable they were and pulled out of all of those. Care homes that take predominantly LD clients are much more profitable than those that take elderly LA funded residents because there's more money allocated to LD than older adult social care per head.

Everybody wants carers to be paid more. But by ‘someone else’.
Not them. 😎

Both should be paid more; I bet a lot of people commenting here earn more than either job pays. Not even suggesting that supermarket work is more important than care work but both jobs have a necessity - feeding and caring.

I therefore suggest that caring, supermarket and cleaning jobs should be much better paid than many better paid, but comparatively useless jobs. Shuffling paper and tick box jobs, often paid far more than what they produce, including many public sector jobs, should be the NMW jobs.

Carers, cleaners and supermarket workers should be paid at least £20ph and the useless jobs should pay far less to even it out.

If people who work in care want to be paid their worth which they should absolutely be paid then the only way to change it is through a union or through protest.

Nothing will change otherwise. All those who say they do it for the reward it gives them are kidding themselves and looking through a clouded lens of short term happiness, in reality you have barely enough to feed yourselves with and zero pension.

Can’t see why anyone would do it or why you would ever go into that profession.

£15ph is higher than supervisor roles in supermarket

@S2617

If people who work in care want to be paid their worth which they should absolutely be paid then the only way to change it is through a union or through protest.

Nothing will change otherwise. All those who say they do it for the reward it gives them are kidding themselves and looking through a clouded lens of short term happiness, in reality you have barely enough to feed yourselves with and zero pension.

Can’t see why anyone would do it or why you would ever go into that profession.

Can you really not see why anyone would go into these?

If you’re from a low income background or a chaotic family situation you often struggle in education. When you leave education young you are pushed into apprentice ship type situations or look for jobs that will take you on with no education, qualifications, or experience. Those jobs are often things like caring/childcare or fast-food/supermarket jobs.

I don’t know why it’s so difficult for you to imagine.

It is all about maximum profits.
Supermarket work is very hard the heavy lifting and kneeling is constant in the supermarket.
Care workers do very challenging physical and mental work load they should be paid a lot more.

It’s madness that someone entrusted to care for the elderly/vulnerable amongst us gets paid so little. No offence OP, but the standard of carers generally is pretty poor, which is obviously because they’re mostly on minimum age, so attract the less educated (I appreciate not always, but certainly the majority of the time). We have two homes locally who are being investigated atm, and having been inside one of them on a couple of occasions, I wouldn’t let them care for my goldfish. There needs to be minimum educational entry level, with better training, and better pay, to attract the right people.

supermarkets are free to raise their prices to generate sufficient profit and pay staff the rates they need to attract them.
Care homes largest clients are usually councils, who keep rates down.

@TheHateIsNotGood

Both should be paid more; I bet a lot of people commenting here earn more than either job pays. Not even suggesting that supermarket work is more important than care work but both jobs have a necessity - feeding and caring.

I therefore suggest that caring, supermarket and cleaning jobs should be much better paid than many better paid, but comparatively useless jobs. Shuffling paper and tick box jobs, often paid far more than what they produce, including many public sector jobs, should be the NMW jobs.

Carers, cleaners and supermarket workers should be paid at least £20ph and the useless jobs should pay far less to even it out.

But the people ‘shuffling paper’ doing office jobs, quite often have to have qualifications, such as GCSEs/sometimes A levels, and need to have basics such as maths and English, for obvious reasons. Cleaners etc don’t need qualifications, therefore you’re suggesting people who do better at school/college should get less pay? In which case, why bother working hard at college/school to get qualifications, if you’re getting less money than people who don’t?

But the people ‘shuffling paper’ doing office jobs, quite often have to have qualifications, such as GCSEs/sometimes A levels, and need to have basics such as maths and English, for obvious reasons

And? So do shop workers and care staff. There are very few jobs that truly require formal qualifications - middle management and many desk jobs don't need any more qualifications than a cleaner or care worker, people just think that by having qualifications they have more "worth".

I work in a supermarket and I have a BA(Hons) degree. The minimum requirement for employment in my company is 5 GCSEs, including maths and English for obvious reasons

"It is also a service that would properly work better state run or run by non profit cooperatives (comparable to housing associations)"

Good God NO!!!!!!!!!

Take a look at the reports on HAs that journalist Daniel Hewitt has been doing all year for ITV News.

Be careful what you wish for.

If care cost more, most people couldn't afford it.

It's taxes that fund social care for the elderly. So if people want carers to be paid more, ultimately people will have to pay more tax, which is probably the right thing to do. Supermarket wages are in the private sector so determined by demand and supply - how many workers are willing to provide work to the supermarket and how much supermarkets are willing to pay. Pay is not determined by how useful/valuable the work is - in the private sector it's more about what's the least amount a company can pay someone to do the job they want. For "skilled" people/ or people with niche skills e.g. lawyers, they are willing to pay more. People aren't paid according to the value of their work or how much good they are doing for humanity/more about how much companies/govt are willing or is able to pay for their work.

There may be some millionaire care home owners but there are also loads which are struggling to cover costs.