To ask what we vote for now? (Anti Tory thread)

[Imposter1]

I have voted Tory in the past. It was more lack of sensible other options. They seemed the best of a bad bunch.

I will never vote for them again though. The nail in the coffin for me was MP admitting that life was a struggle on £82k. And he “had childcare to pay for” so needed 2nd jobs beyond being an MP. They have been slowly pissing me off for years and it’s just tipped over for me.

I’m done. But what else is there? I’m not sure where I fit in.

Things that are important to me are:
-women’s rights (I’m not a fan of the current narrative of deleting women… e.g. “pregnant people”, allowing trans people into women’s prisons etc)

• women’s safety
• childcare- making it more affordable and easier for women to return to work after kids
• bring back family centres that were closed down
• giving adequate funding to NHS, police, education (and proper front line funding, not a bunch of made up jobs that pay ridiculous amounts for being a “manager”)
• someone who cares about the environment and doesn’t just make promises that never come true

Is there actually a party that would suit me?

Most of us don’t have the luxury of choosing a party that aligns with our interests, you just have to go with the least worst option under FPTP

This is the problem. Voters have convinced themselves that democracy is a luxury. Fuck that!!!

@Pottedpalm

£82000 isn’t a huge salary in London.

Really!?

I live in London. No one I know earns near to that. Maybe joint salaries come to that - but not a single salary.

@Imposter1

I see this all the time on Twitter. People wanting to make a change, calling out politicians. Christ, even the Daily Mail has been running stories about corruption and sleaze!

Yet we are shot down each time “well you voted Tory so it’s your fault”

I believe the correct response should be “well xyz party offers this and this point is important to them… would you consider them as an alternative?”

OP you sound nuts TBH.

You're on the internet. Use a search engine and look at the key policies of the other parties - why the hell do you think other people should be educating you, FFS? You sound just as entitled as any Oxbridge sterotype.

In fact politics in our FPTP system is boringly easy - if you want to send a message to the Tories that this massive crock of shit is unacceptable - and I wish the whole country did by now, frankly - then all you can do if vote for whichever candidate might unseat the sitting Tory in your seat.

It's not rocket science. But Y do appear to be VU.

@ChurchofLatterDayPaints

Wasn’t a vote to change the FPTP system unsuccessful?

Pre-Boris.

How often should the question be reasonably put to the public?

The main argument for FPTP is that it keeps a link between constituencies and their MPs, in theory at least.

There are MPs from all the main political parties who work tirelessly for their areas and have real local knowledge and commitment. Simon Danczuk's work exposing the child grooming scandal is an example.

And what if the vote still swings in the favour of tories? What then?

@Rhubarbraspberryandrose

It's been 10 years and a lot has happened.

Perhaps if the 12% that UKIP got in 2015 had translated into seats, they'd have had to answer questions about their policies and the EU referendum might never even have happened. In that election the lib Dems got only 7.9% but got 8 seats to UKIPs 1 - that shows just how ridiculous our system is.

There are plenty of systems of PR that maintain a local link - the additional member system in use in Scotland and New Zealand (the first country to give women the vote) is one.

If the voting still favours the Tories at least it will reflect the views of the majority, not a minority as at present.

The idea that the Tory Party give a flying fuck about women is one of the more batshit claims of recent years.

They really, really don't.

You vote Labour if you don’t want the Tories in government, or Tory if you don’t want Labour in. No one else is going to win the next election.

@Pottedpalm

£82000 isn’t a huge salary in London.

Most of them don’t live in London and they get very generous expenses to cover the time they do spend there.

unless you are a Tory and want this corrupt dictatorship to continue, there is no point voting in the UK until they change the electoral system.

Exactly.

If we are stuck with this iniquitous voting system, then the only way forward is for the smaller parties to put aside their vain dreams of personal glory and agree that only one opposition candidate should be fielded in safe Tory seats.

I’ll be voting Labour, as usual.

Councillors - kiss constituents arses, but are nasty little shits to work for.

I agree. I don't know who to vote for. Tories are so far right, ex PMs and ex cabinet ministers seem left of centre. Labour are useless and absolutely no opposition. Current government are so dishonest, anyone should be able to stand against them. I would align my views with Lib Dem views, however, their policies are quite woolly and no-one seems to vote for them. I live in Scotland and would never vote SNP as they also have an awful reputation in government and independence would be an unmitigated disaster.

@blossomtoes agreed

I'm not going to vote. All the parties are absolutely shit.

I think no MP should have a second job. MPs are paid a living salary so they don't need to rely on family money or an additional income. A good MP should be spending all their working hours working for the constituents (and the country if they are a cabinet minister).

we need new parties, lots of them.
Pretty pointless without some form of propoertional representation - with our rediculous first past the post system, more parties simply means tories assured of winning.

I live in one of Labours strongest seats - any election that is first past the post gets a spoilt ballot paper with "I want proportional representation" written across it, because my vote means sod all.

[quote daimbarsatemydogsbone]@Rhubarbraspberryandrose

It's been 10 years and a lot has happened.

Perhaps if the 12% that UKIP got in 2015 had translated into seats, they'd have had to answer questions about their policies and the EU referendum might never even have happened. In that election the lib Dems got only 7.9% but got 8 seats to UKIPs 1 - that shows just how ridiculous our system is.

There are plenty of systems of PR that maintain a local link - the additional member system in use in Scotland and New Zealand (the first country to give women the vote) is one.

If the voting still favours the Tories at least it will reflect the views of the majority, not a minority as at present.[/quote]
As far as I remember it was also the shittest version of PR in the world

That stopped a number of people from voting for it

@ChurchofLatterDayPaints

Most of us don’t have the luxury of choosing a party that aligns with our interests, you just have to go with the least worst option under FPTP

This is the problem. Voters have convinced themselves that democracy is a luxury. Fuck that!!!

@ChurchofLatterDayPaints I’m not saying it’s right, but it’s just a means of managing within the constraints. And it’s better than just throwing your hands up and allowing Tories to be voted in again and again. I don’t see anyone leading us to revolution right now so this is what we’ve got, for the time being.

@Breakingmad

You vote Labour if you don’t want the Tories in government, or Tory if you don’t want Labour in. No one else is going to win the next election.

Yes, it's as simple as that!

FWIW, I live in a marginal seat. For those who live in core solid Tory constituencies, I have some sympathy with ballot-spoiling. Not elsewhere though.

I spoilt my paper last time. My vote’s meaningless in this Tory stronghold. I really envy people who live in marginals.

Join the Electoral Reform Society and work to change fptp.

Breakingmad - would that it were so simple. Voting labour in my constituency would be pointless and would amount to voting in the Tory. The only party with a remote (and it is remote) chance of ousting the Tory is the Lib Dem. What would be the point of voting labour under those circumstances?

KeflavikAirport - joining the Electoral Reform Society makes sense, except that they have had no success in getting rid of FPTP yet.

@KeflavikAirport

Join the Electoral Reform Society and work to change fptp.

^^ And/or these:

www.makevotesmatter.org.uk/

I don't know who they are, but I really like their style. If I didn't have a day job I would campaign for them full time. Instead of thinking it's not possible, it's time to think it IS possible.

The alternative is Toryshambles in 2030...

Wooly I’m not “nuts” thanks. It’s called discussion. There is no need to be so difficult. Go join a thread with other clever people snd leave us thichod here. If it were that “simple” I wouldn’t be on here with others discussing it.

Talking general elections, if you live in a Tory-held seat you vote for whoever is most likely to get the Tories out in your constituency (even if it means holding your nose a bit). It's as simple as that this time around.
If you live in a seat that is not Tory controlled, have a look at see what the majority is (ie how important your vote is to keep the Tories out of your seat)
Then you campaign hard for proportional representation for future elections which would mean that voting for a smaller party wasn't a wasted vote.
The Tories are killing this country.