DD wants to do different interest badges at Brownies, but can’t AIBU?

[TheLoveOfBrownies]

DD is 7, started Brownies in September and recently done her promise.

She did Rainbows for a year before that.

The interest badges that are done at home, DD wants to do different ones to the ones offered but Brown Owl keeps saying she can’t, she can only do 1 interest badge per term and she must do the badge suggested by Brown Owl, Rainbows was the same, she was not awarded any interest badge she did that was not the one suggested. So for example she wanted to Animal Lover, Drawing, Fruit and Veg, Nature, Recycling and Book Lover at Rainbows and they made her do Construction, Agility and Family Tree.

It feels really restrictive and not in the spirit of Guiding, especially as I as her mum am giving up time for her to do the badges outside of the meetings.

I’ve offered to pay for the badges and was told they can’t stop me but they won’t be verified or given out in her meetings, I offered to help with the meetings, and was told yes but they have a programme they follow so can’t change the badges they offer, I even offered to have a small group of the girls and do an interest badge with all of them but was told no, it has to be the badge for that term only.

DD loves Brownies so I won’t take her out but it does feel unfair that the interest badges are supposed to be pick and choose and we don’t get that option.

I’ve heard the other Rainbows and Brownies Groups locally are the same and don’t let you choose your interest badge. So changing groups won’t help.

It just feels a bit restrictive, surely she should be able to do 2 badges per term (1 each half term) at least? Especially as we've been told that there will no sleepovers or camps until at least October 2022 so she won't get those badges towards her theme awards either.

AIBU? And are all Guiding groups the same now?

Had a reply from DC:

Apparently it's like this because people won't tell the section leaders which badges they want to do so they were wanting 1 or 2 at a time rather than saying "I'd like to do these 3-4" and them all being ordered at once, or parents where paying for badges and never doing them with their DD so the badges sit unused in the cupboard until someone decides to do that badge.

They used to let the girls choose then change the meetings theme to reflect the majority, so if 10 girls wanted to do the Gardening badge they'd do the theme for that badge, but follow a programme now because the girls just weren't doing the badges at home.

In guides and rangers there's more free choice apparently as the girls can do the badges themselves around homework etc. so can go through the book and say "I want to do Animals, Gardening, Cooking and Drama" (Not saying these are actual badges just examples) so if she sticks it out a few more years she should in theory have choice.

Still undecided to keep her there or not.

Reporting her to the Commissioner,OK .She will probably leave which won't help any of the Brownies

I think the clarification makes some sense, but I would ask if they could be a bit more flexible around letting the girls do other badges too. Maybe keep a tally of badges done over a half term, then order all the ones that have been completed and hand them out at the beginning of the next term? Getting a badge is a nice incentive to do stuff.
My DD is in Rangers now, but her Guide unit had a huge box of badges and handed them out whenever a girl came in with evidence that they had done a badge. The cost of badges was absorbed within subs so no extra charge was made.

@Beamur

I think the clarification makes some sense, but I would ask if they could be a bit more flexible around letting the girls do other badges too. Maybe keep a tally of badges done over a half term, then order all the ones that have been completed and hand them out at the beginning of the next term? Getting a badge is a nice incentive to do stuff. My DD is in Rangers now, but her Guide unit had a huge box of badges and handed them out whenever a girl came in with evidence that they had done a badge. The cost of badges was absorbed within subs so no extra charge was made.

We do exactly this, the cost of badges, rent, annual membership fees, and weekly crafts comes from subs. We note down what badges girls have achieved each term and then go and buy them and hand them out at the last meeting of term. This way we’re not buying badges that we don’t need and girls get the ones they have done. Again I stress that your leaders are volunteers. They do a lot of training and paperwork to run your unit safely, volunteering to check the accounts or help organise food for the Christmas party etc are all ways you can help to keep your unit running, take some of the stress off the leader and then maybe they can be a bit more flexible in running the programme.

@TheLoveOfBrownies

Had a reply from DC:

Apparently it's like this because people won't tell the section leaders which badges they want to do so they were wanting 1 or 2 at a time rather than saying "I'd like to do these 3-4" and them all being ordered at once, or parents where paying for badges and never doing them with their DD so the badges sit unused in the cupboard until someone decides to do that badge.

They used to let the girls choose then change the meetings theme to reflect the majority, so if 10 girls wanted to do the Gardening badge they'd do the theme for that badge, but follow a programme now because the girls just weren't doing the badges at home.

In guides and rangers there's more free choice apparently as the girls can do the badges themselves around homework etc. so can go through the book and say "I want to do Animals, Gardening, Cooking and Drama" (Not saying these are actual badges just examples) so if she sticks it out a few more years she should in theory have choice.

Still undecided to keep her there or not.

Surely that's solved by ordering the badges after they're completed?

We did a presentation evening at the end of each term and gave out all badges/certificates/awards/prizes etc then,

you just needed to keep a record somewhere (ie GO) which youd be doing anyway, and then do an order a few weeks before the end of term.

The kids really liked the presentation evenings.

We invited parents to ones where things like Baden Powell/Gold Award were being given out.

This is really boiling my blood as a leader with decades of experience. It is WRONG for any reason given. And I’m disliking the negative publicity this is giving, especially as the current programme was deliberately designed to eliminate inconsistency between units.

I do understand the issue of buying badges and them not being completed… the badges do add up in cost and most units run on an extremely tight budget, with the leaders going to great lengths to make the best use of funds. However, I have always bought badges after completion = no wastage and definitely no hassle to do.

OP, please, please go higher up … to division or county or region or HQ (and keep going up until you get a satisfactory response) as this is massively incorrect and totally against the framework in which all leaders have to work.

I am all for defending our volunteer leaders where appropriate, we are often undervalued and many of us have experienced unreasonable behaviour or actions from parents from time to time, but this is none of those things. I’m upset that your daughter isn’t having the rich, rewarding experience she should be having.

I do worry that doing badges at home is unfair on DC whose parents can't / won't help And DC who don't do skiing,dancing,gymnastics
TBF I hate the new programme and the main reason I left was because I knew some of the pushier parents would complain if the kids didn't get their gold awards!

It’s an easily solved problem for the leaders though by doing what every other unit I know does and only ordering badges once completed!

Postage from the online shop is a bit expensive but they could do a termly order and give everything out at the end of term

I do agree the way they do it makes sense, so I've emailed BO and CCed DC and the HR manager at my work to see if there's a way my DD could do the badges she wants to do and offered again to do small group interest work during half term if there's a group of them that want to do the same badge (as I said I'm DBS checked for work and they would have no issues with me upgrading to a movable DBS for this purpose and my even give the cost of the badges to the unit - I know they have done that for a colleagues sons Scout group when they had all done a badge but couldn't afford the badge, my work paid for all the children to get a badge).

I find that some unit leaders are so fixed in their ways and won't allow any kind of flexibility but just moan about everything. It ruins it for the reputation of majority of volunteers!

I'm a unit helper now as I wanted to take a step back from being leader after I had my DS but I would have jumped for joy at a brownie like the OP's DD who wanted to do loads of badges! It was like pulling teeth in my old unit to get the girls to do badges independently I would also have jumped for joy at a parent volunteering to help at all, let alone offering to create a badge group!

I hope you get some support from higher up OP!

Good luck OP and hopefully you will get some support with that.
My DD's Guide/Rangers groups are running a couple of sessions to facilitate interest badges as they recognise also that not everyone has the same support at home. They'll provide time, space and equipment but the girls will lead the activities themselves.

@Beamur

Good luck OP and hopefully you will get some support with that. My DD's Guide/Rangers groups are running a couple of sessions to facilitate interest badges as they recognise also that not everyone has the same support at home. They'll provide time, space and equipment but the girls will lead the activities themselves.

Thats all I'd need is the use of the room or a room for the badge and maybe a small contribution to equipment (but work may cover that if BO agrees I can do it).

Even though you're DBS checked, Guides would probably want a second adult present too. Preferably a Leader which brings you back to where you started! However well meant for it to be an organised event you would presumably need risk assessments and permission from parents? Plus requirements around Covid and LFT testing.

@Beamur

Even though you're DBS checked, Guides would probably want a second adult present too. Preferably a Leader which brings you back to where you started! However well meant for it to be an organised event you would presumably need risk assessments and permission from parents? Plus requirements around Covid and LFT testing.

I completely get that, but the offers there so they know I'm not just trying to do it for only DD.

It would probably be better to volunteer to go and facilitate it during the normal Brownie meeting, rather than separately in half term. Half term would require another leader to come along in their break, rent the room, consent forms, risk assessment etc.

@DockOTheBay

It would probably be better to volunteer to go and facilitate it during the normal Brownie meeting, rather than separately in half term. Half term would require another leader to come along in their break, rent the room, consent forms, risk assessment etc.

Unfortunately I can't help at normal meetings due to work, I use the hour she's at Brownies and her other activities to catch up on emails and make any really urgent calls. Work are flexible so could spare me for a whole day during half term, but I have core hours.

@user1487194234

I do worry that doing badges at home is unfair on DC whose parents can't / won't help And DC who don't do skiing,dancing,gymnastics TBF I hate the new programme and the main reason I left was because I knew some of the pushier parents would complain if the kids didn't get their gold awards!

Some units have allowed badges to be done on badge days/camps etc, to allow those children who aren't supported at home to get their awards

I don't think you can change how this unit is run. They have decided this is best for them.

So your choices are...

• stick with it and accept it
• try another group
• chose a different organisation.

What do you think your DD would prefer?

(You offer of a 1 day thing in half term. Sounds great in theory, but practical it can be quite hard. You will still need at least one 'proper' leader around, maybe even two - im Scouts rather than guides so u sure if GG ratios-. Plus fir the venue to be free on that day. And overall... for the leader to want the help. Some are surprisingly resistant to help.)

@Aroundtheworldin80moves

I don't think you can change how this unit is run. They have decided this is best for them.

So your choices are...

• stick with it and accept it
• try another group
• chose a different organisation.

What do you think your DD would prefer?

(You offer of a 1 day thing in half term. Sounds great in theory, but practical it can be quite hard. You will still need at least one 'proper' leader around, maybe even two - im Scouts rather than guides so u sure if GG ratios-. Plus fir the venue to be free on that day. And overall... for the leader to want the help. Some are surprisingly resistant to help.)

I won't take DD out of brownies, she does enjoy the actual meetings and badge work, I wish I had enough time to help in term time, but I'm a single working parent, I already work my hours around school pick ups and drop offs, I can't ask work to be any more flexible. I can take holiday days to do badge work though.

But then I get the leaders might have jobs and work more hours in the school holidays to make up for lack of availability in term time due to them being a leader at GG so while my offers great it might not work and I accept that.

HR has replied to all saying if its a cost thing they're happy to use some of their community funding to help towards costs of badges/room hire or anything thats going to cost. So the costs are sorted at least.

@user1487194234

I do worry that doing badges at home is unfair on DC whose parents can't / won't help And DC who don't do skiing,dancing,gymnastics TBF I hate the new programme and the main reason I left was because I knew some of the pushier parents would complain if the kids didn't get their gold awards!

I won't complain if DD doesn;t get gold if she hasn't put the work in but not to be given the opportunity at all to do the badges she wants is what bothers me most.

My DD got her Gold award in Guides. She attended pretty much everything and her Leaders did a great job making sure that they hit all the unit meeting times and SB's but it was like pulling teeth getting her to do interest badges! She literally did the absolute minimum (something like 6 over 4 years) You only have to do one interest badge per theme. Other girls did loads of badges but didn't get awards because they missed lots of meetings.

The badges cost 55p each.

The rationale of over ordered badges makes no sense. There are 18 Brownie badges, even if they held 4 of each “in stock” that’s under £40

And they would definitely be used/awarded at some point

@Beamur

My DD got her Gold award in Guides. She attended pretty much everything and her Leaders did a great job making sure that they hit all the unit meeting times and SB's but it was like pulling teeth getting her to do interest badges! She literally did the absolute minimum (something like 6 over 4 years) You only have to do one interest badge per theme. Other girls did loads of badges but didn't get awards because they missed lots of meetings.

DD misses one per half term atm if she's ill more but she's only missed 1 since starting Brownies.

Our scout groups run a celebration evening at the end of each term. There is a deadline a week or 2 before to get in all your badge work and the badges are ordered and given out on the night. If you miss the deadline you wait for the next one. That way there are no wasted badges. In Guides they don't seem to do the same evening idea but the badges are ordered once they are earnt.

The system you're on seems very restrictive to me.