DD wants to do different interest badges at Brownies, but can’t AIBU?

[TheLoveOfBrownies]

DD is 7, started Brownies in September and recently done her promise.

She did Rainbows for a year before that.

The interest badges that are done at home, DD wants to do different ones to the ones offered but Brown Owl keeps saying she can’t, she can only do 1 interest badge per term and she must do the badge suggested by Brown Owl, Rainbows was the same, she was not awarded any interest badge she did that was not the one suggested. So for example she wanted to Animal Lover, Drawing, Fruit and Veg, Nature, Recycling and Book Lover at Rainbows and they made her do Construction, Agility and Family Tree.

It feels really restrictive and not in the spirit of Guiding, especially as I as her mum am giving up time for her to do the badges outside of the meetings.

I’ve offered to pay for the badges and was told they can’t stop me but they won’t be verified or given out in her meetings, I offered to help with the meetings, and was told yes but they have a programme they follow so can’t change the badges they offer, I even offered to have a small group of the girls and do an interest badge with all of them but was told no, it has to be the badge for that term only.

DD loves Brownies so I won’t take her out but it does feel unfair that the interest badges are supposed to be pick and choose and we don’t get that option.

I’ve heard the other Rainbows and Brownies Groups locally are the same and don’t let you choose your interest badge. So changing groups won’t help.

It just feels a bit restrictive, surely she should be able to do 2 badges per term (1 each half term) at least? Especially as we've been told that there will no sleepovers or camps until at least October 2022 so she won't get those badges towards her theme awards either.

AIBU? And are all Guiding groups the same now?

@Yayaga

Brown Owl needs to pipe down!

@Tal45

I think you have to remember that this is run by volunteers who are giving up a lot to run the group. Have you actually asked why this isn't possible?? If it is common to groups in the area and Rainbows then I'm assuming it's not just down to a control freak leader.

Why don't you just ask and then you'll know if there's a way around it. Personally I would imagine it's because it takes huge amounts of time and effort to organise and verify these things so to then have to do that for each individual who all want to their own thing is just too much for a volunteer. To keep it simple they stick to certain badges and that's that to avoid things getting complicated as it's difficult to verify things that happen outside the group.

The other huge issue I'd imagine is that everyone involved needs to be CRB checked - you can't just rock up and offer to work with a group of kids as a volunteer.

Absolutely and thats why I offered to help, I am DBS checked for my job (I work with vulnerable adults) and was happy to pay to upgrade to a movable DBS.

When I asked why she couldn't I was told thats just the way it works.

We do the badges we're told to but DD would love to do some of the others, some of the badges would be "easy" for her but others would be harder and she'd like to challenge herself which was one of the reasons I put her in Guiding to start with.

Considering whether Scouts might be a better fit now.

@Tal45

I think you have to remember that this is run by volunteers who are giving up a lot to run the group. Have you actually asked why this isn't possible?? If it is common to groups in the area and Rainbows then I'm assuming it's not just down to a control freak leader.

Why don't you just ask and then you'll know if there's a way around it. Personally I would imagine it's because it takes huge amounts of time and effort to organise and verify these things so to then have to do that for each individual who all want to their own thing is just too much for a volunteer. To keep it simple they stick to certain badges and that's that to avoid things getting complicated as it's difficult to verify things that happen outside the group.

The other huge issue I'd imagine is that everyone involved needs to be CRB checked - you can't just rock up and offer to work with a group of kids as a volunteer.

but there's absolutely no reason why a Brownie can't do any badge she chooses. The point of the badges is that it is done at home, with no help form the leaders - zilch. They would have to verify the Prescribed Badge in exactly the same way as Chosen Badge. There's only around half a dozen in each theme anyway. They still have to fill in the record on GO, regardless of which badge was awarded.

The additional "burden" on the leader would be to order Chosen Badge alongside Prescribed Badge. and as the records are all central anyway, it's probably easier. We used to do a presentation evening at the end of each term to help with the dribs and drabs.

I suspect the issue is that the leaders have misinterpreted the program and just carried on as per the previous program, where it was common for the whole unit to work on a badge together.

Are you willing to say what area (roughly your are in)? If the DC won't do anything it should go to county commisioner or contact HQ. It is completely wrong and not how the programme works!

I work so hard to encourage the girls in my unit to do badges, it's infuriating to hear people are stopping them.

Also, although they are volunteers, they have chosen to join an organisation with certain standards which have to be met and can't just not bother with an integral part of the job because it's too much effort.

Even in the old programme, the Girls were able to any badge they wished in their own time - they just showed the leader the evidence. We often had kids saying they'd done X badge and they'd show us the evidence the next week - sometimes we'd have to ask them to do more/ show a bit more etc. But generally if a kid is motivated to do the badge independently, they'll do enough.

@DockOTheBay yes, quote correct about the theme choices. I was just trying to be nice to the leaders

@TheLoveOfBrownies this is complete wrong and against Guiding. Your daughter can do which ever interest badge she wishes, depending on unit rules they may ask you to pay for the badge, but this should still be rewarded during the meeting. If they are not doing this I suggest you take to your district commissioner, if they are unapproachable or allowing this then please find out who your county commissioner is.

Yes we are all volunteers and don't get paid, but we chose to uphold Guiding ways (even ones we don't agree with). Your daughter's leaders are doing the new program in regards to interest badges in the wrong way.

[quote CatRatSplat]@TheLoveOfBrownies this is complete wrong and against Guiding. Your daughter can do which ever interest badge she wishes, depending on unit rules they may ask you to pay for the badge, but this should still be rewarded during the meeting. If they are not doing this I suggest you take to your district commissioner, if they are unapproachable or allowing this then please find out who your county commissioner is.

Yes we are all volunteers and don't get paid, but we chose to uphold Guiding ways (even ones we don't agree with). Your daughter's leaders are doing the new program in regards to interest badges in the wrong way.[/quote]
I offered to pay for the badges, but they said they wouldn't be awarded in the meetings if not the specific interest badge for that term, which feels really unfair.

The leaders are wrong to tell you that. Contact the District Commissioner op.

It's no more effort than checking the brownie's badge book and adding the badge to GO and the shopping list.

The girls should be able to do their badges at their own pace. Through their time in the unit they will need to complete the themes to get their Brownie Gold Award but the order doesn't matter.

We do a "badge of the term" suggested in the newsletter purely to promote the badges actually being done as that's the bigger issue, but it's a suggestion not compulsory. To get the Gold, we normally have to target certain gaps in the older girl's records anyway, so adding and extra badge out of a prescribed order is minimal extra work.

And a unit not doing sleepovers/ camps for another year is just being shit. They are allowed already and have been able to since September without the excessive Covid measures that were being obstructive to that point (and only really suitable for older girls being independent in small groups). Some units are more active than others which is fair enough as different units have different resources, but to put a year's limit on it when all else is viable is crap. If it is a practical issue such as leader avaliability, then it's unlikely that they'd be forecasting that to be resolved in Oct 2022.

It sounds like a pants unit. Part of redeveloping the programme was to standardise and stop units adding in their own restrictive local rules.

TBH I prefer the scouting programme and find it more fluid in covering the points required to reach the Chief Scout Awards. Its our leadership team and the girls that keep me Guiding rather than the death by activity cards PSHE programme

@BogRollBOGOF

It's no more effort than checking the brownie's badge book and adding the badge to GO and the shopping list.

The girls should be able to do their badges at their own pace. Through their time in the unit they will need to complete the themes to get their Brownie Gold Award but the order doesn't matter.

We do a "badge of the term" suggested in the newsletter purely to promote the badges actually being done as that's the bigger issue, but it's a suggestion not compulsory. To get the Gold, we normally have to target certain gaps in the older girl's records anyway, so adding and extra badge out of a prescribed order is minimal extra work.

And a unit not doing sleepovers/ camps for another year is just being shit. They are allowed already and have been able to since September without the excessive Covid measures that were being obstructive to that point (and only really suitable for older girls being independent in small groups). Some units are more active than others which is fair enough as different units have different resources, but to put a year's limit on it when all else is viable is crap. If it is a practical issue such as leader avaliability, then it's unlikely that they'd be forecasting that to be resolved in Oct 2022.

It sounds like a pants unit. Part of redeveloping the programme was to standardise and stop units adding in their own restrictive local rules.

TBH I prefer the scouting programme and find it more fluid in covering the points required to reach the Chief Scout Awards. Its our leadership team and the girls that keep me Guiding rather than the death by activity cards PSHE programme

They don't do sleepovers or camps with Rainbows at all (which I get) they've just said that due to local advice they can't do them until October 2022 at the earliest, so I think they'll likely cancel them completely for all but Trefoil and Rangers.

Sounds odd, over the years mine have been in two different rainbow groups and a brownies group. All have let them work through any badge they please, in fact they’ve actively encouraged them to explore the badge book and be self-motivated.

We’ve already done scouts and cub camps, but if one them more active.
The brownies have done some days out. Tbh a large part of the problem is more the guides have sold both their London campsites. We used them a lot, but without them nothing else has replaced them.

You could buy them direct from the girl guiding website shop? And award them to your daughter at home. Not the same but at least she'd get the badges and could show them off.

I'm a cub leader, so not sure how things are run in Guides, but surely the whole point of the interest badges is to offer a range of activities/badges to appeal to the girls. One girl might be into music, one reading, one sport etc, and so this gives the opportunity to do badges in their own particular interests.

I love it when my cubs do badges in their own time at home, and I positively encourage it. We do badge work at the meetings as well, but doing them at home means that they can do the badges that particularly appeal to them, that others may not be so interested in. It's a bit of extra work for me, checking what they've done, updating our system and ordering the badges, but it's not too much extra really, and part of my job as a cub leader.

Perhaps ask around other local units to check if they allow this, rather than just going on what you've heard. Otherwise, I'd recommend contacting your local cub pack and seeing if they've got spaces.

Interest badges are supposed to be done as an individual. We used to request that someone else sign off the book - eg a dance teacher, a teacher, a neighbour, rather than parent as each stage was done. There may be one or two done as a unit over a term but guiding is supposed to encourage independent skills as well as group skills. LIke others have said I would contact the county commissioner.

I haven't got anything to say re the badges but the no sleepovers & no trips until Oct 22 baffles me. I am a volunteer leader & our girls have plenty of trips planned & we have a sleepover booked for Feb.

It's sad that your DD unit aren't doing anything like that.

This is so frustrating. They're called interest badges. The clue is in the name - they're intended to be freely chosen by the girls according to their interests!

She's wrong and being a volunteer isn't a free hand to disregard the organisation's rules.

I used to be in Scouts not Guiding but honestly that sounds bonkers. We were absolutely delighted to support kids in getting additional badges and used to even stop and help them think of extra things or squeeze something into the programme if they had done almost everything but couldn't do the last bit at home.

I think I would be considering if scouting is a better fit: I know sleepovers and camps are back on for cubs in my area.

Rainbow and brownie leader here. Interest badges can be done whenever girls want (some will do some / loads and some won't) Skill Builders should be done in session. That's how the programme works so if that isn't happening I would speak to DC and if not then HQ. Whole point of interest badges is for girls to express themselves how they want.

@Notebooksarefabulous

You could buy them direct from the girl guiding website shop? And award them to your daughter at home. Not the same but at least she'd get the badges and could show them off.

I don't think you can do that with official badges, you have to log in to order them. However there are lots of websites who sell unofficial badges which you can with on for fun e.g. pawprint family. They wouldn't count towards the Brownie Gold or theme awards though

When I was in Brownies and Guides (a long long time ago), we were only allowed to do certain badges (I think because they didn't have anyone to test others) and you could only do one every so often. Because honestly, they were so easy to get, I could have done a load all at once and then what would I do. Plus the theory was (I think now looking back) that you take your time over learning and learn to do it properly.

I have had children at two different local Rainbow and Brownie Groups and also at Beavers, Cibs and Scouts and all were encouraged to do badges at home. Please complain, this isn't how it's supposed to be and seems to be sucking some of the fun out!

This is v strange and it's definitely not done like this in my DD's brownie unit. In fact they actively encourage the girls to do their interest badges at home. I'd take your concerns higher up, or move to cubs if it were me.