To tell DM she needs to abide by our rules

[User154871]

Hi, sorry in advance for the long post. I've posted about my DM before on the Stately Homes thread. She is narcissistic and an alcoholic. My sister is NC and I want to continue a relationship with her but put boundaries in place to protect us.

We fell out earlier over a small issue of her kissing the baby. I'm due next week, she will be visiting people in another hospital and I said something like 'potentially don't kiss the baby right after coming from a hospital'.

She told me 'I could think again and that she had rights to kiss and hug her grandchild whenever she wanted'.

I shouldn't have responded really - I told her 'you will have the rights we decide you have'. She put the phone down.

She has previously made comments about disregarding our food choices, dummies etc. She wants to do a lot of childcare which will not be happening (but I've avoided the question rather than responding as she sees it as a challenge to overcome if you argue...I was just trying to grey rock). She also has offered to drive us home from the hospital. This will not be happening as she regularly drives over the limit and has no intentions to cut back on her alcohol use (another reason why she will be supervised with the baby and not do childcare).

I've just received a long email telling me that 'Motherhood is not about being in control. She will accept our rules even if she thinks we are wrong but that we need to accept her rules and ideas too.'

AIBU? I wasn't planning on having this conversation at all for a while as it seems silly to make rules about an unborn baby; but I don't know whether she has a point about my need for control. I do have anxiety and like to be in control - mostly because she was always unpredictable and sometimes scary when drunk when I was a child. But now I'm questioning everything and doubting myself. Advice would be much appreciated!

She just phoned. She wanted to discuss the argument. Apparently she thinks I was threatening her by saying that if she goes to the other hospital she can't visit us. I never said that...she has reframed it to make me sound unreasonable. I didn't apologise...I've just had it confirmed that I'm heading in for my c section tomorrow and I'll worry about it all later.

I'll order that book about toxic parents. I love my sister but she lives a long way from us and is a lot younger than me so she isn't really a support system I can rely on. I don't want to burden her either - she's enjoying uni and doesn't need the stress.

My husband isn't unsupportive, he just thinks it's an easy thing to say to go NC, but hard to do emotionally. He's wary of making any snap decisions while I'm heavily pregnant and emotionally vulnerable. I think he will support whatever I decide and would prefer to go LC for the moment while we adjust to being parents and save the drama and stress for later.

Hope it all goes smoothly tomorrow OP, how exciting to know you're going to meet your baby soon.

Your mother sounds clever and cunning and manipulative. She can make people doubt themselves and wonder if perhaps they are being unreasonable.

You are right.
She is toxic.
She has NO rights over your child.
Your job as a parent is to protect your child.
You are not responsible for her, if she is lonely there are plenty of support groups, hobbies etc. You are not her parent, it is not your job to look after her.

Block her on your phone for at least a week after the baby is born and make sure DH takes any calls to his phone/landline and says she can't speak to you. Make sure DH also turns her away at the door. He can protect you and your baby from her until you're settled and have decided what to do. I think NC is a good idea too, and don't underestimate how much your sister might appreciate you going NC too. She seems like she is off doing her own thing but she must feel very cut off from her family. The support you give each other can be via SM/ phone calls.

Best wishes for tomorrow 💐🎉

You really do need to go NC. You can place all the boundaries you like but she will ignore them anyway. You are not responsible for her or her MH. You are responsible for your happiness and for the safety of your baby.

Ah, enjoy meeting your baby tomorrow OP, and forget about your mother for now.

1 - stop sharing details with her. She is on a need to know basis and at present, she doesn't need to know. Anything.
2 - in her email where she stated Motherhood is not about being in control. She will accept our rules even if she thinks we are wrong but that we need to accept her rules and ideas too. I would have responded "What is this if not being controlled by my mother??? Leave me alone and I will contact you when I'm good and ready to.
3 - Seriously give consideration to cutting back contact. If you honestly feel that you can't go no contact, go very low contact. She doesn't belong in your life now that you're an adult in your own right. She has no rights to your life anymore or that of any children you may have.

Best of luck.

Hope all goes well tomorrow OP.
Do you really want your precious child to have anything to do with your Mother? You have talked about therapy etc that you need due to your treatment by this woman, why would you inflict her on your child??
Please think very hard about this
Good Luck

Forgot to include this bit in my earlier reply...when she phoned and She wanted to discuss the argument. the only acceptable discussion point is "Mum - are you going to follow our rules or not? If you're not, then that's the end of the discussion." and you hang up on her.
At the first instance of her disregarding your boundaries and your rules, that's it. That was her last chance so you just cut her out. Completely.

It's just appalling that you're having to deal with this right before giving birth. She has no respect for you or your boundaries. She's not going to change. She's not going to become the mother you need. That hurts so badly, I know. This is very dark stuff that you're dealing with, and at an intensely vulnerable time

You are not responsible for her. She's an adult - a messed up, manipulative one, but still an adult. She is your parent. YOU are the child in this relationship, YOU are the one who needs looking after and nurturing. Are you getting any of that from her? No. You're getting threats and demands and being told that you're not in charge of decisions that relate to your own baby. Sod that. She doesn't get to play this game with you

And as for other family members, you don't owe any of them an explanation. You're an adult, you get to make your own decisions about who is in your life. And with parents like these, it's my experience that lots of people actually see them more clearly than we do, and are nowhere near as fond as we imagine they are. You may be surprised how many family members might be cheering you on if you did stand up to her. But either way, you know what shes like, you know the full picture, and you don't have to justify anything to them

Good luck for tomorrow

I am NC with my mum while my sibling is LC and I think my life is a lot easier because of it. My children have grown up with no clue what it's like tiptoeing around other people potentially exploding at them and it's a great feeling.

You're the parents of this baby and you set the agenda. Good idea not to tell her the section date.

So the first time you let her hold the baby and she starts kissing him/her what will you do? Will you be strong enough to end it there and then?

You can break the cycle and protect your child from her.

She’s messed your own childhood up by being a narcissistic selfish piss head, do you really want this woman in your defenseless babies life?
Tell her to do one and go no contact, would you ever be at peace leaving your child with this woman?

Why are you even debating with an alcoholic narcissist? You’re setting yourself up with unnecessary stress.

Stick to your boundaries.

Interesting that she frames you establishing boundaries as "an argument".

Suggests she feels it was not resolved (ie, to her satisfaction).

I think this should tell you a lot about how much consideration she has for your situation (or is even perhaps looking to take advantage of it).

I think you need to be very clear and calm.
Don't tell her about dates/timings - just pick things back up with her on your terms, if you have to at all.

Fuck's sake. Your baby isnt even born yet and your husband wants to put it on the line of abuse?

A wise person posted something here once that is apt for GPS with no boundaries. The "Three Dos"

Do you love your grandchild?
Do you want a relationship with them?
Do what the fuck you're told.

Best of luck for today

Thanks. It's really put it in perspective today. Got all the way on to the theatre table and then they got worried about my spine for a reason that had not ever been discussed or mentioned previously. We had to turn around for tests, waited 11 hours in total at the hospital yesterday and long story short...I still have no baby.

So who gives a shit what my mum is doing. I'm so glad I didn't tell her I was supposed to be having the c section today - only a few friends knew and I've really struggled dealing with the 'how did it go' messages. I've got to spend most of the weekend at the hospital for monitoring and tests and I don't have a replacement date.

I'm so angry with the NHS that once I'm postpartum we are probably going to complain. If they hadn't been so disorganised on multiple occasions, this would never have happened.

Sorry things didn't go as planned

Op I'm so sorry sorry your are in this situation.
I can't believe she's still throwing her weight around in spite of loosing one dd.

It's only going to cause you frustration, can you just gently without announcements pull back?

Op so sorry just seen your update. The problem with people like your mum is their "demands" affect us and worry us even when we need to put ourselves first so definitely gradually with draw I hope things work out for you today.

I’m so sorry. How awful.

I’d start mentioning that you should probably be speaking to PALS right now as sadly it will probably be helpful in getting you a new date sooner rather than later.

Sorry to hear your update. Another vote for contacting PALS.

I agree with others that you should probably go NC.

At the moment you're in a bit of a half-way house situation where you're trying to maintain control while also letting her in enough to appease her, but its very clear she won't play that game. You're either in or you're out. If you want to set the boundaries you have to leave her outside them.

I'm not planning on responding to the email.
That was a good start OP.

Actually, you do have control. Your mum cannot make you do anything - she is, after all, neither the police nor your employer. You are free to ignore anything she says, or does, which you don't feel is ... positive and constructive.

So an email. You read it. You think, "what's good about this?" If nothing then... you can act like you never got it.
What's the worst that could happen? She rings you up and says "why didn't you reply?" You can say ANYTHING YOU WANT at that point. "I have to go Mum, talk to you later" for example.
"I read it and thought, 'I have no words'", is another.

There are lots of scenarios that at first seem scary, but you can have a plan for them all.

What situations - REALISTICALLY - would work OK, involving her? Meet up for coffee at a park cafe with the baby safely bundled up and strapped down into the pram? If her behaviour is so terrible that the answer is "none" then this may well end up as a VLC or NC situation but it's for you to judge.

Do what's right for you. It's absolutely possible to do that and not be mean about it. Note, I don't say it's possible to avoid your Mum reacting badly... Just that, if she does, it will be on her. She's an adult, responsible for her own actions and welfare.

Good luck OP. I understand how stressful this all is. It's heartbreaking that she is how she is, but, that's the situation, she's unlikely to change much, and you have to come to terms with it. Maybe what led to this wasn't all her fault - but it certainly wasn't yours.
Ultimately, THERE IS NOTHING WRONG IN DOING WHAT IS RIGHT FOR YOU. NOTHING.

@Shmithecat2

I'm at a loss as to the reasons why you feel it beneficial to keep her in your, or in your child's life. Go NC.

Totally agree with this.

There are many, many posts on MN about Ps and ILs being inadvertently annoying or overstepping, and many more about sneaky attempts to have their way, especially where DGC are concerned. But your mother couldn’t be more overt about who is she and what her agenda is if she painted a huge sign and put it outside your window.

You sound kind, and possibly keeping the relationship up out of guilt but her self-abusive and controlling behaviour is front and centre and it really sounds as if there is nothing but harm to come from maintaining any relationship with her.

As a PP said, she will ruin the rest of your pregnancy, your labour, your first precious days and weeks with your newborn and more. All at a time when you are less equipped to deal with it and should be enjoying something very special.

I’d go NC today and not look back. 💐