thinking its now time to get super tough on dog ownership?

[adam7485]

after what has happened in wales to that poor little boy i can't help thinking its time to not jus bring back dog licences but before you buy a dog you should have to take an exam to prove that you can look after it properly. not only that but if your dog attacks someone not only should it be taken away from you but from that moment on your banned from ever owning dogs. anyone agree with me?

And who do you think should be in charge of implementing a dog licence and exams..the current government... I agree,there are too many irresponsible dog owners who dont know at all how to train a dog and properly socialise a dog.Unfortunately,we live in a world where sometimes horrible,very tragic accidents happen.I dont think a dog licence/exam would prevent these accidents.Some people pass a driving test and are dangerous drivers.

Number87 - If we, as a society, can’t protect children from their own parents what hope do we have of protecting them from aggressive dogs?

The RSPCA has very low standards when it comes to animal welfare - if a dog has food and water then they do not act. The dog could be untrained, unsocialised but if they have food, water and even a pitiful shelter then it seems the ‘good enough’ standard is met.

More legislation is not the answer - without proper funding, and the will to enforce it, legislation is meaningless. The problem with aggressive, dangerous dogs is a wider societal issue - we need to look at the other end of the lead. Unfortunately, as I said previously, if we can’t protect children from their own parents I very much doubt we will be able to protect them from the people responsible for aggressive dogs.

Totally agree with you OP.
Something needs to be done and if it means making extremely tough for people to own a dog I am all for it. It’s just policing it once they’ve got the dog. “My baby wouldn’t hurt a fly” just can’t go on.

People are still far too lax and in denial when it comes to dogs.

We used to have dog licences they cost 37shilling and sixpence. Licences wont make any difference at all, and as most dogs with responsible owners have been microchipped, there is a record of them anyway.

@FOJN

If you can't walk far enough to exercise your dog every day, several times a day I'm some cases, then don't get a dog or get a breed that doesn't require as many walks.

Walking a dog off lead is not just about physical activity. Dogs engage in many off lead behaviours which are beneficial for their mental well being.

However...

Some dogs should never be off lead and too many owners don't realise that their dog is one of them.

There are benefits, but unfortunately the stupid people once again ruin it for everyone else that isn't daft. Most dogs can be trained to behave off lead, their owners don't bother. You can't force them to train their dogs, they complain about the time and cost (rather stupid arguments when they own a dog but oh well), best you can do is make them keep them on a lead.

There's been several incidents recently near me of someone letting their dogs off lead who then chase kids on their ponies. Kids fall off and end up in hospital. Pony can end up bitten and needed vet treatment. Owner of dogs doesn't give a shit and walks off with no care in the world that they just injured a child and a pony.

Can't trust some people to make a decent judgement unfortunately. They need told what to do and how to behave appropriately. And unless it's a blanket ban, they won't listen.

I am sick fed up of people not controlling their dogs properly- from letting them crap all over the place to letting them bound up to you whilst saying ‘it’s ok, he’s really friendly!!!’ I do not know or trust your dog and I do not want to have an up close unwanted interaction with it! Dog training classes should be compulsory for all.

I’ve always had dogs- usually massive ones too! My favourite ever dog was the German Shepherd I had growing up and he was enormous.
But now that I’m an adult, and a parent, I do look at dogs sometimes and think about how much trust you have to have in your dog, and how disastrous it can be if it goes wrong. (And if that sounds like I’m overthinking, I am - I have anxiety, it’s what I do!).

It does seem like children are getting hurt by dogs far too often, so maybe we should have licenses.

It sounds defeatist but I work in the animal industry and there's no funds to support anything like this and most owners, though well-intentioned, have no clue about the law and their responsibilities as pet owners or breeders. None whatsoever

I believe you, icedcoffees, and worse still there are too many who don't want to know about their responsibilities - often the type of knuckle draggers who see pitbulls, etc, as a status symbol

It was no surprise when someone linked a list of dog attack fatalities and he vast majority were down to this type of dog. As so many have said, the regulations already exist but it's enforcement that's the problem, and the worst offenders aren't going to cooperate willingly or at all

When I was looking for a dog it was difficult to find one in UK centres. I didn't want a husky or cockapoo that nobody had bothered to train then given up.

My Greek ex street dog is the absolute best dog I could ever have wished for. I've saved her from a kill pound, given her an amazing life and taken great care over her training and socialising. In fact I'm looking for my next dog and that will come from abroad too - and I'll train and socialise it so its a well behaved member of society. Dogs coming from abroad for a decent life are not the issue if they are well integrated - most rescues do home checks and provide rescue backup. Certainly if I ever couldn't look after my girl anymore the rescue would take her back and they were on hand when she arrived with lots of help, advice and support. It's not a bad way to get a dog - certainly better than buying one off gumtree.

Blame the feckless owners, regardless of where their dog comes from.

Let's say you did a training course and exam on dogs before you let someone have a pet. Who would you have write and deliver the dog training? Whose methods would you have as the government approved way to train a dog?

The Kennel Club run a good citizen awards scheme (bronze, silver, gold) for dog owners. The training is delivered by an approved dog trainer and the assessment is carried out by an accredited independent assessor. It's voluntary but covers owners legal obligations, obedience training and dog health and welfare. I was a complete novice dog owner when I did mine and I thoroughly enjoyed it. I'd done a huge amount of reading before getting a dog but none of it was as useful as attending a class run by an excellent dog trainer.

There are different training methods but a good trainer should be able to recommend techniques for your dog. The pack leader idea is quite out of date now, I found gentler training methods very effective.

i am a big believer there is no such thing as a bad dog only bad owners. I always say to people that having a dog is like have a child, you need to train and discipline them aswell as provide exercise and good diet etc. It takes time and effort and the rewards are amazing. Dogs should never be left alone un supervised by children, if a dog is going to attack they give clear warning signs . I believe you should be trained to see these signs. Responsible dog ownership and knowledge is very important. Breeding needs to really heavily restricted. Here is Ireland we are seemingly the puppy capital of the world. There are two breeders licensed here in my county to have 300 breeding females which can produce up to 5,000 puppies a yea, yet our shelters here are over flowing with lockdown abandoned dogs. A charity found 30 puppies dumped in a car park a few weeks ago in Black bags. None of these breeders are inspected or checked what conditions they are raised in. Then you have the backstreet ones, kept in appalling conditions sold for a fortune and most puppies are not well either. These conditions can then lead to the dog becoming aggressive etc as its not well. I don't believe the shelters are too strict, shelters are there to asses you and they will assign you a dog that they know will suit your and your home life. Recently rehomed a jack russel during the summer, however he was badly abused dog by a women in her 20's or 30's so he was very wary or me at 1st. He loves my partner, he also has pain in his lower back which wasn't treated so this caused him to be snappy. You cant hoover or weep the floor when he is around, makes me think this is what he was beaten with it. Hates the rain and cold as he was left outside all the time, and wasn't used to the noise of the TV. You couldn't place him in a house that had children, it needed an experienced dog owner who would put the time in with him to get it right. I have signs up warning people of him, if someone comes to the house we put him in his safe place. When were out we keep him on a lead and keep our distance , we also warn people who coming running up and think its ok to pet him. Its been hard work but the improvement has been immense

This case was tragic and that dog involved being investigated by the police.
Nevertheless, the breed of dog I get chased by, growled at and generally menaced on my country walks are labradors and/or labrador crosses. The owners of these dogs don't recall their dogs, don't put them on leads when they always chase people, often walk them with multiple children who rightly get the parental attention while the dog runs wild.
It is not just dangerous attack dogs that are menace in this country, some of the most common pet breeds have terrible owners.

Life was never easy for us cynophobes but it has become increasingly difficult with the explosion in dog ownership. I've never been happy with dogs in places that serve food (except for guide dogs, naturally) but they were generally (a) few and far between, and (b) the dog was usually tired from a long walk and having a snooze, so I wouldn't be too anxious (particularly after a drink )

But now? Noisy families and untrained dogs often the norm so choices increasingly limited. If we want to go anywhere to eat we always ask if the place is dog friendly then I have to say I'm allergic as opposed to having to say I have a phobia. Neurodiverse too, so wouldn't want to risk a panic attack, let alone me being made to feel like I'm a problem because I don't want "friendly" Tyson near me!

(Yes, I did try to deal with it via attempts at counselling, didn't work.)

Also as a neurodiverse person I'd like to be able to use green spaces more and in a safe way. Forest walks, etc. are excellent for mental wellbeing, but much of this space is taken over by the likes of doggy day care people. Yes, dogs need exercising, of course, but it would also be nice for safe sensory days in such places?

I've seen a lot of responsible and not responsible owners over the years and the latter have got worse in lockdown. I'm quite used to dogs and like them but the number of owners who allow their dogs to bound over to me in a park when I'm walking either on a path or on the park on a dirt path (big dogs) - they don't call them back, keep on the lead etc. I have no idea what the dog is like in character.

If you haven't got the land to give your dog the exercise it needs, don't think the countryside (and urban parks) exists solely for the purpose of your dog running around burning off energy off the lead usually with poor recall (but being such a special entitled dog that it is more important than every other living creature, including humans), subjugating humans taking exercise (or farm animals) to the role of giant toys/prey/enemies to defend the precious owners against... while you enjoy a chat, tap on your phone, deal with too many small children, palm them off for cash to a dog walker who has absolutely power of recall over your dog as well as 10 other stranger's dogs running wild in the countryside while they sit on a log drinking a thermos.

The UK needs dog licences and designated areas solely for the purpose of exercising dogs so that every park in the UK isn't by default a dog park (dog loo). The UK needs to reclaim some parks and most of the countryside to be safe for lifestock and ramblers.

Enforcement of dogs on leads as well or just scrap the laws on this - otherwise what is the actual point. I walk in a dogs on leads area - in 2 years not seen a single dog on a lead.

Also every person who has to exercise in fear of being chased by some entitled person's entitled dog needs to get an ultrasonic dog training device to repel the little darlings. An annoying noise works some of the time and indicates to the entitled owner that their special darling is being a nuisance.

I agree with the thoughts of dogs on leads etc when out but most attacks happen in the home.

I have owned 3 bull terrier type crosses. They were all adopted from rescue in older age, the first two were 8 and the current one is 12, adopted when she was 10. They have all been reliable friendly pets and i do get very upset when breed specific comments are made as it is the owner who is at fault if they are not properly trained, it is not down to the inherent tendency of the dog.
We have also owned 3 other dogs, a colllie cross, pedigree Dachshund and a Petit Basset Griffon Vendeen - each of those bit at least one member of the family during their long lives with us, though not badly. None of the Bull Terrier types have shown an aggression in any circumstances at all, even when dealing with ear drops etc. What we need is more support for dog owners, accessible training etc.
DH and I have a comfortable income, we tend to spend it at pleaces where our dog is welcome, hotels and informal restaurants an d pubs. I think large numbers of establishments would have financial difficulties if they did not cater for well behaved dogs.

I'm not against rescues bringing in dogs from high kill shelters elsewhere.
Both the dogs my parents have had came from abroad. One a Bichon who sadly died from liver cancer after two years. The second a "product of many breeds "came from Spain and is a lovely family pet.
He is very anxious around other dogs and bikes though so he's heavily controlled when out. Every now and then we hire out the dog walking field for an hour where we can take him off the lead safely.

To really get tough, you would need the following;

a) unlicensed breeding of dogs, criminal offence
b) dogs must be on a lead unless in designated dog safe area, if the dog is not on a lead outside of this area, a presumption in law that the owner is not in control of the animal and penalties for the same
c) expensive licences and insurance - if you do not have one that the animal can be confiscated
d) criminalise the importation of dogs from abroad unless from a designated, licensed breeder
e) puppy sales to be banned online
f) immediate ban on owning animals of any kind if dog bites a person

These aren't impossible things to do - its just as society we are too stupid about dogs to do so, and wring our hands about it. Its both an issue for the owners and the dogs they choose to home. This is about public safety. An owner who is responsible wouldn't have to worry about any of the above. A selfish person would.

I agree that peeps need to pass a competency test in order to own a dog. Dog wardens should do more to check on dogs and their owners. The owner of any dog that attacks should face a stiff prison sentence.

I agree OP.

I honestly don’t know what dog licences would make? I’m not being awkward, I can remember as a teenager when our family had our first dog my Mum had to go to Post Office to get the licence but nothing was ever checked whether we were suitable owners etc etc.

Something definitely needs to be done, the number of bad owners is heartbreaking. That poor boy and his family.