To trick someone into eating vegan?

[Idonthatevegans]

Please read my question before getting into a debate about veganism. That isn't really what it is about. It has no impact on my life if someone is a vegan or not, do what you wish.

I got into a discussion with someone recently, and found out that people are often surprised when they find out that there was no meat in the beef pie/ spag bol etc she served. And she gets a kick of that fact they couldn't tell the difference. Honestly I couldn't really, not in something like a spag bol.

I have however, tried quorn a few times in my life, with AWFUL results. I am in the bathroom within 1 hour and very sick for a day after. A 100% vegan meal without meat substitutes ya I'm 100% ok with. But if someone says I made beef pie, I would take them at their word. If I knew the person was vegan I would probably enquire if it was real meat only because I know how awfully I react to it. But if I didn't know that person was a vegan I would take it at face value. Yes it happens every so often I get offered tea around a friends aunt who we popped into or something like that.

To me, a vegan passing of something as meat to people who don't know and can therefore make up their own mind is as bad as me putting chicken stock into veg soup and telling someone it is vegan friendly. Ya the vast majority in both cases won't know the difference in taste or after affect. But both people have been denied the option of having their own choice. One has been tricked into thinking they are eating meat, one has been tricked into thinking they are not. I know there are hugely different moral implications there but both have been tricked when they should not have been.

I really don't want to this to break into a vegan/ non vegan debate. That is all that I got back on my last chat. The person wouldn't actually answer my question about tricking someone, just kept on a barrage of info about how vegan is amazing and that anyone who eat meat was the devil incarnate.

BTW - it's not something I would often say I am allergic to as I usually take how food is called at their face value.

I simply want to know:

AIBU - she can call her pie beef pie, even if it is not beef pie.

YANBU - you should know what you are eating. If it's called beef pie well of course you would expect it to be beef pie

I've got nut allergies and I'm intolerant to a whole load of other food. I've twice ended up very sick from people pulling this stunt. I don't understand the mentality of bare faced lying to someone about what they're eating. It's immoral and just plain stupid.

If I were going to someone's house for a meal and I had a serious allergy like yours, I would tell them in advance. That's only fair, isn't it? If I'd gone to the trouble of making you a quorn (and it's not cheap) pie and then you said, that you couldn't eat it, I'd be pretty fed up.

I think anyone who is lying to someone about what food they’ve served them, for whatever reason, is an irresponsible, selfish arsehole.

I end up eating quite a lot of vegan food as my DB and SiL are vegans. I also lie through my back teeth and pretend that I can’t taste the difference in meat substitutes. I can; it’s vile, both in taste and texture and I struggle to swallow it unless I’ve covered it in baked beans or ketchup. Whoever told your friend they couldn’t tell the difference is either lying to be polite, or they have defective tastebuds!

@toastofthetown

People should be honest and upfront about what they are serving, though when vegans have prepared meals for me, I assume the food will be vegan.

I am confused about people who claim that they can't tell the difference between substitutes and meat. I haven't eaten meat in over ten years, and still feel mince substitutes lack any depth of flavour and the texture is off-putting. People are polite and simply won't say 'this is terrible, I think something is wrong here' even though they can tell the dish isn't right. The only thing to say when someone serves you a meal 'this is lovely, thank you very much'. And I think people confuse that politeness with their guests being genuinely fooled. I feel similar when people online say they serve their sugar free beetroot brownies and no-one can tell the difference.

This is spot on! Our vegan friend is very keen to give us vegan ice cream, vegan creme brulé etc, while enthusiastically telling us it's at least as nice as the "real thing". We feel honour-bound to go along with it. But strangely no one else chooses this stuff at anyone elses house when there's a choice of something with diary fat in it

The vegan aspect is a total non issue

Giving people food they're not expecting to eat can be a big problem though

It's a stupid thing to do if she's pretending it's meat. I wouldn't like to be her when she does it to someone who had allergies or intolerances triggered by the meat substitute. A

@MoltenLasagne

I've got nut allergies and I'm intolerant to a whole load of other food. I've twice ended up very sick from people pulling this stunt. I don't understand the mentality of bare faced lying to someone about what they're eating. It's immoral and just plain stupid.

Had you told them, and they gave you nuts anyway? That's awful, and probably a criminal offence.

She can serve what she likes and if they know she is vegan then presumably they know to expect that. But telling people that something is one thing which is another and getting a kick out of it? Whatever your take on the planet and our food, lying about what you feed someone is wrong. Too bad her morals still allow her to be a sanctimonious liar.

it’s highly unusual to be allergic to meat substitutes
Surely many of them have gluten in - and some vegetarian ones have egg? Both of which are common allergens?

I don't eat a great deal of meat so being given vegan food is fine as a rule, however I react really badly to 'meat substitutes'...well at least every time I've tried them. Dairy substitutes aren't great but not in the same ballpark as meat substitutes for the way my body handles them.

I wouldn't claim I'm allergic, but spending the following 6 or 8 hours at least within the confines of the bathroom afterwards suggest that my body really isn't amused by it. If a friend did this to me on purpose I'd be really fucking annoyed and consider whether our friendship is worthwhile.

@OneTC

The vegan aspect is a total non issue

Giving people food they're not expecting to eat can be a big problem though

I don't think this is the case. It's more a matter of not giving them what they are expecting. I don't provide guests with a list of every ingredient (unless they ask).

The tricking people would really hack me off. 2 of my closest friends are vegan, and I cook vegan for them and eat at lots of vegan places. Someone tricked me by telling me it was steak pie and then I found out it was vegan I'd be really unimpressed majorly.

You have to be honest about what you serve people. For years I would get sicky of there was Mayo in things (proper sick - shakes and sweats) and od know of someone had put it in something (even if you couldn’t tell) because I’d react quite quickly.

I’d have been super pissed off if some bright spark said ‘oh that egg Mayo sandwich has real Mayo - you can’t tell the difference between that and the flakey olive oil one you use!’.

Quorn does seem to give a fair number of people tummy problems too. So that’s one thing I’d never feed anyone without warning!

Vegan or not, you should know what's in the food you are served.
Although saying that, I would want to know what intolerances people had before I cooked for them as basically I don't want them throwing up. I do think it's not totally awful to make custard with oat milk if you've seen them eat oats before and so know it's fine for example...

YANBU. You shouldn’t lie about ingredients in food full stop. Whether it’s meat, veggies or human flesh 😇

I'm vegan. She's out of order. If it's not meat she shouldn't claim that it is.

As a vegan, trust me, you do not want people unused to cooking meat cooking it for you. Guaranteed food poisoning.

Are vegans incapable of following recipes or cooking instructions?

Leaving the meat out and making it out of veggies - then I think the 'trick' is ok (but should be made clear after wards). Leaving the meat out and replacing it with soya or quorn or anything else that a lot of people have a problem with is not acceptable. I think you need to educate her on this.

She definitely shouldn't be lying about ingredients, because the potential to really harm someone with an allergy or food intolerance is huge.

I'm vegetarian and cook a lot of vegan food, and if I am sharing with others I don't usually bother specifically stating that it's vegan or vegetarian - so I might tell someone we were having lasagne without specifically stating 'vegan lasagne'. Mostly because people seem to get very annoyed if you point out all the time that food is vegan. However, I would certainly never explicitly state that something was beef / chicken / whatever if it wasn't, and I'm always careful to check in advance before feeding someone things like quorn or nuts, which I know are common allergens.

I don't really get why some meat eaters are so aggressive about people using terms like burger / sausage / nugget about veggie or vegan substitutes, and I think it's often just a weird stick to beat people with. But actually trying to trick or deceive someone is weird and inappropriate.

YANBU

although, most quorn isn’t vegan anyway

YANBU, it’s not about tricking someone into eating vegan, it’s about telling someone you’re serving them one thing when actually it’s another. The vegan part is irrelevant.

A lot of people react badly to Quorn and soya mincr, so for that alone, she's in the wrong.

People have a right to know what they're eating. It might be different if she listed all the ingredients and pretended meat was among them, because then nobody has actually consumed something in ignorance of it; they just think they've eaten something that they haven't. It's still somewhat manipulative, but at least it doesn't risk harm.

I am confused about people who claim that they can't tell the difference between substitutes and meat.

Me too. MIL once made bolognese with quorn for all of us (FIL is pescatarian but she normally makes something separate for him). It was horrible (her meat bolognese is lovely) and it gave me awful indigestion. I have no problem with not eating meat - I could pretty easily be vegetarian- but all the meat substitutes I've tried have been not very nice.

YANBU.

Lots of people are intolerant to quorn and tofu (quorn especially) and should be told.

I think it's wrong to lie to people about what they're eating full-stop. It has nothing to do with veganism.

I can eat most meat substitutes fine but Quorn ruins me. Apparently quite a high percentage of people are intolerant to it