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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to think a soap shop shouldn't be encouraging young girls to self harm?

544 replies

Elleexxtra · 09/11/2021 12:23

Lush Paddington are giving out binders, meaning girls can self harm without any danger of their parents knowing and being able to discuss potential issues with them.

www.instagram.com/lushpaddington/

AIBU to think young girls shouldn't be groomed to hate their bodies?

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Elleexxtra · 09/11/2021 16:03

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ConstanceGracy · 09/11/2021 16:04

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NotLikeJane · 09/11/2021 16:04

@NannyOggsWhiskyStash

I have 3 young adult children, and they have 2 friends who use binders, as they feel that they are in the wrong body. It is their choice to use binders, why is this an issue? The binders greatly help their mental health.
The issue is that they are harmful to women's/girls' bodies. In certain circumstances dysphoric people might find they help mentally, but they should have appropriate mental health support while using them and for associated dysphoria, and in a way that doesn't make the practice more desirable in the wider population.

Lush is a shop associated with very pushy sales assistants selling 'fun' products mostly to girls, often very young girls. The staff don't have mental health training, safeguarding expertise and presumably they're not DBS checked. Children will see the binders in store and read about them on the Lush social media pages. They will come to associate breast binding with the Lush brand, and so it becomes something desirable, normal, something that Lush customers do.

PleasantBirthday · 09/11/2021 16:04

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Supertree · 09/11/2021 16:08

@BloodinGutters, I know it's slightly off topic now but I felt exactly the same way about the latest series of Sex Education. I had to stop watching in the end because of the preachy nature of that bullshit. I was gobsmacked at the idea that the head was unreasonable for telling a female student that she would need to go to the sex education lesson for females. Was the message supposed to be that you can identify out of pregnancy/STDs? The student complaints about uniform and the low quality of the provided sex education seemed fair enough, but to suggest that a non-binary person doesn't need sex education appropriate for their sex is stupid and dangerous. I STILL hear of teenage girls believing that they can't get pregnant the first time they have sex. Still! So for gods sake, do not go around putting the idea into their heads that their inner identity has any impact on the realities of sex and pregnancy.

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 09/11/2021 16:13

@NannyOggsWhiskyStash

I have 3 young adult children, and they have 2 friends who use binders, as they feel that they are in the wrong body. It is their choice to use binders, why is this an issue? The binders greatly help their mental health.
Are you unaware that they can damage physical health, or do you think the benefits to mental health outweigh the physical effects?

extract

If you hope to get top surgery (a procedure to reduce or remove breast tissue), binding frequently can affect skin elasticity and impact surgery outcomes (4,5).

(continues)

Risks and side effects of binding

Binding can affect skin, muscles, and movement, particularly over long periods of time. Tightly covering the skin and chest with materials that don’t allow free-flowing air can create warm, moist environments for bacterial and fungal infections to develop. Wearing binders that are too tight can cause underlying tissue and muscle damage, prevent free movement, and even restrict a person’s ability to breathe.

Two studies have been completed that focus specifically on people who bind. They were cross-sectional studies, observing a specific population (people who chest bind) at a specific point in time, and were published in 2017 and 2018. Both of these studies are based on data from 1,800 responders to an online survey.

Across both studies, the majority of people (89-97%) reported experiencing at least one negative symptom from chest binding (2,3).

Common side effects of chest binding

76-78% of people in studies reported skin/tissue problems, like tenderness, scarring, swelling, itching, infections

74-75% of people reported pain in chest, shoulders, back or abdomen

51-52% of people reported respiratory problems (like shortness of breath)

47-49% of people reported musculoskeletal symptoms, like postural changes, muscle wasting, or rib fractures (2,3)

helloclue.com/articles/cycle-a-z/chest-binding-tips-and-tricks-for-trans-men-nonbinary-and-genderfluid

lazylinguist · 09/11/2021 16:14

It's better they have access to safer binders rather than resorting to DIY methods. These kids will find a way to bind one way or another.

Do you also object to teenagers being given access to condoms?

What a stupid comparison. Condoms prevent harm. Binders cause harm.

Whatwouldscullydo · 09/11/2021 16:14

How transphobic to say they are In the wrong body.

Dysphoria isn't even a requirement fir being trans so what exactly is it the binders are treating ?

AryaStarkWolf · 09/11/2021 16:19

@Skinnytailedsquirrel

And we used to be appalled by China binding women's feet. This is so wrong.
Yes, that's the first thought that came into my head when I read this as well
IncessantNameChanger · 09/11/2021 16:21

What is the real point of Lush anymore? They seem to be a front for politics. I'm really not sure they are about hygiene products and the products is just a front for what ever bandwagon they jump on next.

Over the years I think they have done something to make nearly everyone I know go off them because of their latest ethos.

I'm not sure what they stand for as they stand for everything. There fore they stand for nothing.

Helleofabore · 09/11/2021 16:21

I don't see the slightest issue.

The binders greatly help their mental health.

Body modification, even stuff that might seem extreme to other people, is not the same as self harm.

The results are actually indisputable. Over 90% of young females reported negative side effects from wearing binders. OVER 90%. A young woman just this month posted on social media that their NIPPLE came off due to wearing a binder.

And posters' don't see the slightest issue? That young girls and women are being lead to believe that their breasts need to be 'flattened' to appear more like a male or at the very least androgynous? Because they cannot be their 'authentic' selves without binding?

And sorry, body modification for CHILDREN!!!!

Do any of you actually read what you wrote and think ... mmmm? Yeah, the issues leading to needing to bind are not really being addressed for this group of females, that is actually where the focus should be. Not on normalising children under the age of 18 wearing clothing where 92% report just one negative effect and a large portion experienced more. And some of those children will never be able to reverse the damage.

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 09/11/2021 16:22

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Welcometothejingles · 09/11/2021 16:23

Binders are the modern day Western equivalent to footbinding in China hundreds of years ago. Both practices cause untold damage to women's bodies and prevents them from participating in every day life due to pain.

Helleofabore · 09/11/2021 16:23

PurgatoryOfPotholes

Thank you for posting those results. I doubt though that those who are telling us 'it is NOT self harm' or 'body modification in children is all fine and right' will even bother to read it.

bordermidgebite · 09/11/2021 16:25

If they have mental health problems they need to be addressed

Substituting physical problems for mental ones isn't sensible

TheKeatingFive · 09/11/2021 16:26

It's really concerning to me that young girls, understandably struggling with their changing body during puberty, are being encouraged to think that this means they're 'born into the wrong body' and need to change it.

That's not to say I don't think gender dysphoria is a real thing, but we need to be much, much more rigorous about distinguishing between it and normal discomfort in the change in adolescent bodies.

Robinkitty · 09/11/2021 16:27

I always buy my kids a bath bombs for Christmas as a treat. I won’t anymOre.

MistressoftheDarkSide · 09/11/2021 16:28

@TheKeatingFive

Absofuckinglutely.

FranceTeam · 09/11/2021 16:29

I wonder why it is that when men want to be female, it is fine for them to keep the penis, but for females wanting to be men, they need to bind their natural bodies.

ufucoffee · 09/11/2021 16:29

Lush will do anything for woke publicity. The sicken me.

Elleexxtra · 09/11/2021 16:31

I used to get Cosmetics-to-Go (Lush's predecessor) catalogues and read them in the bath with my Ceridwen's Cauldron. Ginger perfume reminds me of my uni days as a strong, independent and fiercely feminist woman.

It's sad to see what C-T-G has turned in to.

If I need any bath products I'll be looking on my local market stall. There's usually someone with a decent selection !

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girafferafferaffe · 09/11/2021 16:31

Bonkers

ConstanceGracy · 09/11/2021 16:31

@Robinkitty may I recommend The beauty Vault? I got some fab bath bombs from here for my kids for Christmas as Lush can kiss my arse if they think I’ll ever hand over my money again.

MistressoftheDarkSide · 09/11/2021 16:33

Yes, @FranceTeam

Why is "lady dick" acceptable but "man boobs" not?

Elleexxtra · 09/11/2021 16:33

@TheKeatingFive

It's really concerning to me that young girls, understandably struggling with their changing body during puberty, are being encouraged to think that this means they're 'born into the wrong body' and need to change it.

That's not to say I don't think gender dysphoria is a real thing, but we need to be much, much more rigorous about distinguishing between it and normal discomfort in the change in adolescent bodies.

Exactly

If anything, this is making a mockery of those with gender dysphoria

Imagine feeling that distressed and seeing a company turn your pain into a marketing strategy? Fucking inhuman

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