To be ashamed of our Sleazebag PM?

[Sean2001]

If it wasn't bad enough, Johnson presiding over the Paterson vote last week ...

He's now refusing to attend the debate today on sleaze/corruption

He also will not allow the sleaze watchdog to look into his flat refurbishment.

Does Johnson actually think this kind of behaviour is impressive?

I find it deeply embarrassing.

"The UK needs its own 5Star movement, or at least a completely new party."

I wouldn't use the 5* as an example of how to behave. Just as many accusations of corruption in their ranks as any other. Mostly well-founded. One of the most recent being the son of the founder accused of gang rape and his father trying to pull strings.

Giuseppe Conte is a good egg though. That's why after turning Italy around during the first Coronavirus wave they kicked him out. Too upstanding.

People keep saying how MN isn't representative of the UK. Why? It apparently gets 7 million unique users per month.

Yes, 7 million people visiting the site per month is a lot but that doesn't mean they are a representative sample of the UK's population. Indeed, the evidence available is that they aren't. For a start, they are overwhelmingly women whereas almost 50% of the UK population is male. Further, there is no guarantee that those who post on political topics are a representative sample of Mumsnet visitors.

My own observation is that those who post on political topics appear to be significantly more left wing than the general population, but that is just a personal impression. I haven't conducted any detailed analysis and, as I don't read most political threads, I may be completely wrong.

Don't you think that is because we have had a Tory government for more than a decade, people who are happy with the way things are going don't tend to start threads about it.

If the government had just accepted Paterson's suspension, the OP wouldn't have started this thread.

I wouldn't use the 5 as an example of how to behave.*

no nor would I geamhradh. Just racking brains to think of alternatives to this mess.

My own observation is that those who post on political topics appear to be significantly more left wing than the general population

The general UK population is left-leaning, don't forget Toryshambles is a minority government, courtesy of a broken electoral system; the GE result does not accurately reflect the general view due to millions of wasted votes resulting in tactical voting, disillusionment and a very high level of political homelessness, which in turn has generated a strange obsession with party leaders' personalities and an absence of policy-focused thinking.

At least it's quite reassuring that there are lots of mothers (in particular) on here and elsewhere who don't want their male children turning out like Boris or thinking Tory behaviour is something to emulate.

Not a good look

It appears that Geoffrey Cox prepared his statement whilst staying in Mauritius

@DuncinToffee

Don't you think that is because we have had a Tory government for more than a decade, people who are happy with the way things are going don't tend to start threads about it.

If the government had just accepted Paterson's suspension, the OP wouldn't have started this thread.

Possibly, although I think it is more likely to be because the demographic that posts on Mumsnet, according to Mumsnet's last census, is a very left leaning part of the population - women aged 30-40. But the point I was making is that, despite the large number of users, those who post on Mumsnet are not representative of the UK. The reason they are not representative is not really relevant to that.

@ChurchofLatterDayPaints "it was in response to you saying Cox wasn't corrupt, then you said if he was unduly using his influence it would be corruption; I then said no that'd be influence peddling."

Understood but I think that is semantics. Wikipedia thinks that influence peddling is corruption. I take the view that it may be, but it depends on the details.

When it comes to corruption though, the demographic shouldn't matter, everyone should be angry and holding the government to account. Unless you do not value democracy.

The Leadsom amendment was backed up by issuing a three line whip.

Cox should resign.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/geoffrey-cox-foxhunting-hunt-welfare-gay-rights-b1956009.html

I posted this in the brexit thread, legally allowed, morally......

Five ministers in Boris Johnson’s government are among a group of MPs who have claimed more than £1m from the taxpayer to cover their rent payments, while letting properties that they own in London.

Some 17 landlord MPs – 15 Conservatives and two Labour – have put their housing costs on expenses while earning more than £10,000 a year each renting out their own properties in recent years.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/mps-rent-expenses-geoffrey-cox-b1956146.html

Just appalling Duncin

[quote DuncinToffee]I posted this in the brexit thread, legally allowed, morally......

Five ministers in Boris Johnson’s government are among a group of MPs who have claimed more than £1m from the taxpayer to cover their rent payments, while letting properties that they own in London.

Some 17 landlord MPs – 15 Conservatives and two Labour – have put their housing costs on expenses while earning more than £10,000 a year each renting out their own properties in recent years.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/mps-rent-expenses-geoffrey-cox-b1956146.html[/quote]
I can't get worked up about this morally. It seems entirely ethical to me. No MP is paid enough to maintain a second home in London. Their job needs them to have one. Why should they provide it from their own resources?

Your level of remuneration is not means tested. You don't get paid more or less according to how much you have in the bank.

That's made me so angry Duncin.

So many people struggling. Benefits being cut. Whilst these greedy Tory pigs are using our taxes to further enrich themselves.

It's nauseating.

No MP is paid enough to maintain a second home in London. Their job needs them to have one. Why should they provide it from their own resources?

The article I read said they lived in their London home. That was their first home. They were renting out the other one.

What is this obsession with MPs being paid so little? We never say this about any other profession - many many of which do get paid truly very little.

£80,000 plus expenses is a massive amount.

@Sian73

No MP is paid enough to maintain a second home in London. Their job needs them to have one. Why should they provide it from their own resources?

The article I read said they lived in their London home. That was their first home. They were renting out the other one.

What is this obsession with MPs being paid so little? We never say this about any other profession - many many of which do get paid truly very little.

£80,000 plus expenses is a massive amount.

£80 plus a generous range of tax-free expenses you couldn't get in any other job. Lots of jobs require you to live in London - only being an MP pays you to live there tax free.

People keep saying how MN isn't representative of the UK. Why? It apparently gets 7 million unique users per month.

MN is 99.99% Pro-Remain so it doesn't represent that strand of opinion - just as one example.

It really isn't.

But that's beside the point. So what if it is? I could afford to pay for the hotels I stay in when I'm away on business out of my own resources. But I'm buggered if I'm going to!

Lots of jobs require you to live in London - only being an MP pays you to live there tax free.

Hi @daimbarsatemydogsbone

MPs are also (effectively) required to live in their constituencies. Or they would be getting no end of flack if they refuse to do so!

Moaning about their entitlement to have their rent paid in London is really pretty pointless.

But you are not selling your room to another guest whilst claiming expenses are you?

@MurielSpriggs

Lots of jobs require you to live in London - only being an MP pays you to live there tax free.

Hi @daimbarsatemydogsbone

MPs are also (effectively) required to live in their constituencies. Or they would be getting no end of flack if they refuse to do so!

Moaning about their entitlement to have their rent paid in London is really pretty pointless.

I wasn't "moaning" - just pointing out that it's nothing like getting a hotel room on expenses for a training course.

@DirectionToPerfection

How on earth can 43% of posters here disagree with you? Fucking hell.

The man is pathetic and he has made the UK a laughing stock. It's frightening how low the public's standards are.

The problem in Britain is, so so many people are politically illiterate.the best example is Brexit.Other countries look in total amazement at Britain, how people in Britain vote constantly to be poorer.

The problem in Britain is, so so many people are politically illiterate.the best example is Brexit.Other countries look in total amazement at Britain, how people in Britain vote constantly to be poorer.

The problem really is our press, and am ongoing sense of bizarre British exceptionalism (probably still based on "we won the war"!).

In the vivid imaginations of the 43%, the world looks upon us with a mixture of envy and admiration, and tries to hatch bitter unsucessful plots against us. They've somehow missed the fact that we're a worldwide laughing stock!

The problem in Britain is, so so many people are politically illiterate.

Absolutely spot on. And that's government educational propaganda for you.

In other European countries, children learn linear global history. From the year dot. In great detail.

In the UK - as of the 2021 IGCSE exam - kids learn random cherry-picked topics from different centuries that fit with the Establishment agenda and show the UK in a good light, as in, "look how far we've come".

They are not given any understanding of the despicable British Empire or the corrupt political system and pointless parasitic monarchy.

I would love to be corrected by parents of GCSE Politics students.

No MP is paid enough to maintain a second home in London

Let's not focus on the £82K, their expenses are huge.

My MP is one of the ones named in the Independent for trousering rent on expenses for a London property, whilst being a probably multi millionaire and barely here where I live, as he has a massively huge estate on the other side of the country where he spends most of his time. (And he was reprimanded for this a decade ago and just carried on)
Is it any wonder we're cross?

@Roussette

No MP is paid enough to maintain a second home in London

Let's not focus on the £82K, their expenses are huge.

My MP is one of the ones named in the Independent for trousering rent on expenses for a London property, whilst being a probably multi millionaire and barely here where I live, as he has a massively huge estate on the other side of the country where he spends most of his time. (And he was reprimanded for this a decade ago and just carried on)
Is it any wonder we're cross?

IPSA, which independently decides the standards for MPs, decided to keep the current rules regarding renting property in London whilst owning another property which they rent out in 2017, saying, "our view has not changed that an MP’s personal financial situation is not a relevant ‘test’ for whether they should receive support from Ipsa". I have to say I agree with IPSA on this. An employee's financial situation should not be a factor in deciding whether they should be refunded their expenses.

As for expenses being huge, the average MP receives around £157k in expenses, over £111k of which goes on staff costs. As with any job, MPs do, of course, have to prove they have incurred the expenses they are claiming.