To think not all MLMs are bad?!

[Exhausted5487]

First off - full disclosure that I did once purchase a Neal's Yard starter set because it was amazing value and for a year my family and I enjoyed the 25% discount. I never flogged it or even considered doing so.

However aibu to think there are legit MLMs out there and it's unfair to cast them all in the same net? Obviously there are a lot of dodgy ones and pushy sellers. The main negative for me is people "investing" in them when they can't really afford to because they think they'll definitely make money. Elle Beau's blog shows how awful Younique are. However NYR, Body shop and Avon are all genuine, good quality businesses. I have a lot of friends who sell body shop...personally I have never bought anything from them but I've also never felt pressured to. I also never had any pressure to sell anything when I was briefly a "representative" for NYR.

Genuinely interested to hear why they are all the same if IABU!

@AliceMcK

Good luck with this. Your not going to get anywhere with the anti MLM judgmental MNs lot. I’m assuming this has been sparked by the friend derailing the weekend away thread.

Personally I don’t have a problem with them. Not something I’d be interested in, though I will admit I did throw a few Ann Summers parties in the 90s, but they were mainly for fun, the fact I got some freebie from it was just an added perk. I’m certainly not going to put down or judge anyone else for wanting to give them a go.

@AliceMcK Why are you so offended that almost everyone on here is against MLMs???

Been blocked by a few people on facebook for trying to force your crappy MLM on them have you? 😂

MLMs are a scam and a con, and most intelligent people know that.

If you are slighted/annoyed/irked about people stating the truth, then you are clearly someone who has been brainwashed by an MLM.

Shame really, even the better companies like Body Shop and Avon have succumbed to it now. They are just MLMs now, preying on vulnerable, naïve, and gullible young women who haven't had enough experience of life yet, to know that MLMs are money-stealing, time-stealing cons, that have ruined peoples lives, and left them penniless, and in debt.

I don't think you can have a legit pyramid scheme.

@AliceMcK

Good luck with this. Your not going to get anywhere with the anti MLM judgmental MNs lot. I’m assuming this has been sparked by the friend derailing the weekend away thread.

Personally I don’t have a problem with them. Not something I’d be interested in, though I will admit I did throw a few Ann Summers parties in the 90s, but they were mainly for fun, the fact I got some freebie from it was just an added perk. I’m certainly not going to put down or judge anyone else for wanting to give them a go.

You don't have a problem with them because you labour under the delusion that they're a money making option for women, as demonstrated on the Body Shop pamper party thread.

I have a Thermomix and I absolutely love it. It's absolutely brilliant and I would 100% recommend. I'm not a seller, so have no ulterior motive on this. Why no shop? Because the overheads are massively lower via direct selling, and you don't have to cut the retailer (e.g. John Lewis) a percentage. They sell very well via their current model which maximises the profit, so they have no incentive to change. Plus you can buy them direct from their website, if you really want to avoid going to through a rep.

However, despite being completely sold on the product, I still wouldn't sign up to be a rep. That's because I don't think the compensation arrangements are transparent enough to non-reps. I'm uncomfortable that it's too obscure, which is a bit of a red flag for me.

My take on MLMs is that it all comes down to where the money is made. If you make the majority from selling the product, then it's direct sales and totally fine. If you make the majority from recruiting downlines, it's a scammy pyramid scheme and absolutely deplorable.

@SummerInSun

Is Thermomix an MLM? A friend of mine sells them and several friends who've bought one love them, and they seem like a great product (if you like that sort of thing) but as my DH says "if it was that good, you would be able buy it from John Lewis".

They are really good at getting people to sign non-disclosure agreements (with pay outs) when their Thermomix explodes and burns them.

I buy some body shop and some Avon, the body shop is handy because it saves me 8 miles each way to the nearest branch or the shipping cost if it's a small order. With Avon it's ideal for one or two things, I like their products and the rep is a young mum as I was when I sold Avon - no pressure to buy either, I message her when I want a book.

I think it's also about the products being legitimate, I associate mlm's with products with dubious claims or of limited use. Whereas I need to buy shampoo, soap etc. Living in a small town I don't have a huge array of local shops

They are all bad , they prey on people who desperately want to work but don't have the opportunity to for lots of reasons and can't afford to get out once they get sucked so far in .

@daimbarsatemydogsbone

I think Avon would be a bit annoyed at being called MLM.

See also Body Shop. As far as I know the more legit direct sales don't have the Multiple levels which characterise the really crappy schemes.

MLMs are nothing less than a dodge to get around the fact that pyramid selling is (rightly) illegal. The only people making significant money are the owners of the business and a very very very few people high up in the "levels".

Avon absolutely is an MLM, as is Body Shop at Home www.ecosecretariat.org/avon-mlm-review/

Here is an excellent recent thread about MLMs. Worth reading the whole thread because of the appearance of a full-fat, 100% hunbot spouting pure, native MLM hunspeak!

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4391092-To-be-confused-about-friend-s-Maldives-holiday

Good luck with this. Your not going to get anywhere with the anti MLM judgmental MNs lot. I’m assuming this has been sparked by the friend derailing the weekend away thread.

Personally I don’t have a problem with them. Not something I’d be interested in, though I will admit I did throw a few Ann Summers parties in the 90s, but they were mainly for fun, the fact I got some freebie from it was just an added perk. I’m certainly not going to put down or judge anyone else for wanting to give them a go.

I don't judge people for getting sucked into an MLM. MLM recruitment relies on the MLM teaching their bots to identify vulnerable women, find their insecurities, find their hopes and dreams and then bullshit them into signing up, acquiring stock, remaining active, and more recruitment.

I judge the fuck out of predatory MLM bots who know it's an exploitative business model, but rather than walk away, they go out to recruit their own downlines whilst pretending they're being a boss babe.

I don't understand why anyone wouldn't have a problem with a predatory business model that is largely based on manipulating women when they are financially vulnerable.

I’m going against the grain here but I used to sell Virgin Vie which by today’s standards was a MLM. I had a great time and made loads of money - enough to save a deposit for my first house. If you go into it with your eyes open i don’t have a problem. I buy loads of Scentsy from a friend - she’s tried to recruit me but a firm no and she left me alone.

I quite like the sales. I love a good body shop, pampered chef (I miss it) or temple Spa party.
Shopping at home with my friends in a, relaxed atmosphere is lovely. I hate trawling round the shops. I also llwould love a tupperwear party haha

MLM's are mostly bad, especially those on FB trying to guilt their friends into buying it, and influencers flogging it for a commission.

I'm sure it's theoretically possible for someone who understands what they're getting into and is committed to running it like a real small business start-up to turn some kind of profit without alienating their entire social circle. But that would require real business savvy and crazy hours, same as any other small business. They're not marketed to people who want to do that. Instead, they're sold as an easy way to make money where you set your own schedule for a few hours per week. Anyone who goes in intending to do that is going to lose a small fortune.

A few incorrect statements about Avon that I’ve put right on previous threads and got a load of abuse for my troubles.

Avon reps don’t have to pay up front. They can distribute brochures (online for free), collect orders, deliver and collect payment, then pay for the product sold.

Sales leaders get a commission on the sales of their team, but no one gets anything for just recruiting.

There’s no minimum sales to earn commission, and over 80% earn something each month. Yes some are small, effectively just buying for themselves with a discount. Some earn lots but yes, it’s not everyone.

Products are good. All available online if you don’t want to use a rep. Some people do.

I absolutely understand some are cons, predatory etc. Avon is a direct selling business with great products, and puts an awful lot back into the community with its charity work.

I was an Avon Area Manager a few years ago. I had a brilliant team, hit every target that was set, except for the recruitment of new Reps.
I would not recruit in areas where I already had either several well performing reps, or in one particular area where a rep was working it full time and was making a good living at it. Why would I? All I would be doing is diluting the earning capabilities of the bloody brilliant team I had in place.
I missed out on bonuses, failed in my reviews and left before I was sacked.
I had a team of over 100 reps, all by and large hitting (unwritten) targets, but my entire focus was to be on recruiting new agents.
Now, is that an MLM or not?

To be fair, I am going back quite a few years and things may have changed, but the pressure to constantly recruit was immense.

Why no shop? Because the overheads are massively lower via direct selling, and you don't have to cut the retailer (e.g. John Lewis) a percentage. They sell very well via their current model which maximises the profit, so they have no incentive to change.

Translation: they can have a whole load of people doing “demonstrations” at their own cost including ingredients and if there is no sale the supplier is not out of pocket.

The overheads are not lower, it’s just that the company doesn’t pay them. The overhead is borne by distributors who can do many of these in a month and not make a sale.

A few incorrect statements about Avon that I’ve put right on previous threads and got a load of abuse for my troubles.

Perhaps because you are misleading?

Avon reps don’t have to pay up front. They can distribute brochures (online for free), collect orders, deliver and collect payment, then pay for the product sold.

They pay an admin fee to join and have to pay for physical catalogues after the first 6 weeks. Plenty of MLMs do a pay when sold model, that doesn’t make it any better.

Sales leaders get a commission on the sales of their team, but no one gets anything for just recruiting.

Again, similar to many MLMs

There’s no minimum sales to earn commission, and over 80% earn something each month. Yes some are small, effectively just buying for themselves with a discount. Some earn lots but yes, it’s not everyone.

Most people don’t “earn lots” from selling lipsticks. They earn lots from other people, working for less than minimum wage selling lipsticks.

Products are good. All available online if you don’t want to use a rep. Some people do.

So Avon sells direct through its website, competing with reps who they have charged for their own identical website selling exactly the same stuff.

I absolutely understand some are cons, predatory etc. Avon is a direct selling business with great products, and puts an awful lot back into the community with its charity work.

Avon’s own North American President said in 2009 “Right now, our direct-selling opportunity is really the No. 1 product that we have to sell”

It is an MLM and no amount of charity work will change that.

It used to be because they buy the catalogue.

Yeah I know why they do it. But that's not my problem.

@BillMasen I’d imagine it can do lots of charity work as it isn’t paying all of its ‘reps’ pensions, maternity and sickness pay, NI or the minimum wage. It’s preying on women in vulnerable positions and making them more vulnerable.

I don't know. Back in 2015, before I knew what MLMs were, I got roped into buying Tropic products from a rep. A colleague invited a group of us to her house for a "ladies pamper evening". She mentioned that a friend of hers who had set up a cosmetics business selling all natural stuff would be there showing us the products. I assumed it would be an independent local business, so was willing to give it a go.
When we got there it was clear the woman was actually just a rep and it wasn't her company that she had set up herself, so I was a bit confused.
But it was still a fun night - the drinks were flowing and we had a laugh. The Tropic rep let us try out lots of products and they did seem good (they smelled great). She wasn't pushy at all. Everyone ended up ordering at least one thing, a few people ordered several products. They weren't cheap so she must have done well out of it. Then again I think she would have had to pay for the products before sending them on to us? And all of the samples she used on us too. So I don't know.
The face wash I ordered ended up being a bit crap. It did smell good and had a nice texture to it but it left my face feeling sticky, like there was a greasy film on it.
Does anyone remember Oriflame? It was big in Europe in the 90s and early 00s.

Does anyone remember Oriflame? It was big in Europe in the 90s and early 00s.

I remember going to a sleepover with a group of friends when I was a teenager and the girl’s mum, came in all of a sudden and said “oh let’s do a pamper evening” and happened to have the front door all set up with stuff. She showed us all the products and how to use them. I recall she showed us an apricot facial scrub and as we washed it off she said “look there’s all your blackhead coming out, your face is so clean now” I said it was just the crushed apricot stones but no, she said it definitely your blackheads. She was picking on the girls who had acne and saying how wonderful all this stuff was for acne, and everyone was ooh-ing and ahh-ing at the makeup. Everyone ordered stuff and I remember feeling uncomfortable about it, weird that an adult was encouraging all the kids to buy the stuff. I never ordered anything because I knew fine well my mum wouldn’t be able to pay for it and I certainly couldn’t. I had no idea about MLMs at that point, and I do wonder how many of the parents cancelled the orders.

You have to be kind of desperate to organise a kids sleepover to hit your targets. I don’t know if my friends was in on it or not but I’d have been embarrassed if it were my mum.

*door = room

If you've taken in by the spiel, you'll never want to admit that you've been conned.